Lying-flatism

am a Starfleet Admiral . Wear the patience thin in regards to the Prime Directive and/or whatever and ı will give Americans universal health care .
 
Joij21 said:
You said you practice negative hedonism, how is that different than stoicism? You claim stoicism has toxic elements therefore your own philosophy must have elements the same elements of toxicity and morbid depression.
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very generally, stoics don't much like emotion and want to ideally completely detach from need. i like needs and emotions. i like being fulfilled. that's the core tenet of hedonism, and kind of detaches from the ideas stoics argue. negative hedonists practice foundationally the same as positive hedonists (fulfil yourself), but with less need to fulfil. stoics hated hedonists at large, because their premise of presence is completely different.

there's overlap in some of the practices, but a lot of stoicism is about accepting your fate regardless of your bodily situation, and sometimes, it does not really mesh well with the fact that we do have minimum needs. there's a lot of criticism of stoics not listening to your body.

the toxic elements of stoicism isn't really about that though. there's basically two kinds of stoics today.
1 "i shouldn't worry about things i can't change."
2 "i shouldn't worry about the fact that all women are heinous harlots."

the former is an approach that i disagree with. of course, i have overlap with it, and stoic models of logic for the sake of happiness is used in eg. cognitive therapy. there's problems, but it wasn't what i was talking about.
the latter is a transference of the toxic online manosphere people that feel the "logic" appeal of stoicism suits them well (plus they often like the ancient greeks save for the gay thing). that's the toxic parts.

for the morbid depression part, i don't really know what to say. i'm not the best case of health, but not because of my outlook on life here. it, rather, helped me.
 
Angst said:
so, the singleness. the notes on singleness confuse me a bit, at least to what i practice myself. the point of negative hedonism is to minimize your dreams & needs so you are always satisfied. the point is not to abandon the world altogether; the point is to need as little of it as possible, as it's outside your control (and yes, this overlaps with the stoics, who also have their fair share of toxic elements today, sadly). it's good to be happy when single, as you can't (or rather, shouldn't) control when other people get together with you. the pressure from society wanting you to do stuff, and then willfully abandoning that pressure, that makes sense, and i guess society wants you to have babies, but on a personal level, someone engaging you for romance isn't inherently society pressuring you to get with that person. it makes sense you shouldn't feel you need to get together with the person out of societal pressure, but the question is rather, to me, what do you want yourself exactly? if you don't want to date that person, don't do it. if you want to date that person, do it. and for the latter, if you want to date that person - if you abandon your own happiness to spite society - i'm unsure how embracing such a movement is good for your happiness.
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I don't think it so much rejecting romance, but rather not bothering to put much effort into it. I suspect that most people lying flat would not reject the love of their life if it dropped from the air and fell into their lap like they would not reject a gift of a million dollars. But usually neither happens, so you would have to work for it. If you manage to resist the pressure of society (and biology) that tells you that you need a relationship to be happy, you could avoid a lot of stress resulting from the attempts to create one.
 
uppi said:
I don't think it so much rejecting romance, but rather not bothering to put much effort into it. I suspect that most people lying flat would not reject the love of their life if it dropped from the air and fell into their lap like they would not reject a gift of a million dollars. But usually neither happens, so you would have to work for it. If you manage to resist the pressure of society (and biology) that tells you that you need a relationship to be happy, you could avoid a lot of stress resulting from the attempts to create one.
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then it actually evens out a lot with my own view on it.

like, to me, relationships with the right person makes you happy, and one should go for it. relationships with the wrong person out of pressure (any, really; your own, society's, the person's) is most often a bad idea.

and there's similarly nothing wrong with being happy and single.
 
Yeah, that was the part of the article that most interested me: must lying-flatism involve eschewing romance?
 
it's indeed strange. i wonder about the overlap in usage online with some other movements.

(and may i add just randomly, into the void, that lying-flatism is such a clumsy term. awful branding there.)
 
Angst said:
the latter is a transference of the toxic online manosphere people that feel the "logic" appeal of stoicism suits them well (plus they often like the ancient greeks save for the gay thing). that's the toxic parts.
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And of course, through their actions, a lot of these manosphere types who say they totally don't (or shouldn't) care about the feeeeemales (and their grave misdeed of not sleeping with the manosphere types) actually can't ever stop talking about them.

Like, dudes, if you're really Men Going Your Own Way, please actually go your own way and stop bothering everyone else.
 
mdl5000 said:
I think they always called it "never volunteer for anything" in the US Army at least.

The idea being, managers are constantly looking out for people who will shoulder the heaviest burdens, so they themselves don't have to try and distribute workloads evenly between all staff.
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The labor movement has a similar idea called "work to contract"- do exactly what's in the job description, and follow every single minor rule and stipulation to a tee, which predictably results in work slowing way down because the workers are using malicious compliance to its fullest.
 
Lying flatism has been noticeable in China for a few years. You have to keep in mind that the ongoing work culture in China (and other Asian countries) is nothing like what it is in the US. Chinese American food in the US is nothing like what they eat in China. Similarly, lying flatism in the US will be nothing like what it is in China. Millennials and zoomers are building the foundations of their future society. I wish you all good luck. The laws of unintended consequences will still apply. :hatsoff:
 
choxorn said:
The labor movement has a similar idea called "work to contract"- do exactly what's in the job description, and follow every single minor rule and stipulation to a tee, which predictably results in work slowing way down because the workers are using malicious compliance to its fullest.
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Known as "work to rule" over here. Amazing how many businesses struggle when their employers do only what they are contractually obliged to :D
 
No love? No romance? Relationships are all about hard work. The longer the relationship, the harder the work.

 
Gori the Grey said:
Yeah, that was the part of the article that most interested me: must lying-flatism involve eschewing romance?
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As far as I understand it: No, but it would deny that it is a precondition for happiness.

At least in theory. In practice avoiding to put effort into romance might have similar results as outright avoidance.
 
Angst said:
(and may i add just randomly, into the void, that lying-flatism is such a clumsy term. awful branding there.)
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Well, 1) -ism was probably added as the term was brought over from Mandarin to English
2) -ism makes pretty much everything it's added to a clumsy term, and
3) I doubt lying-flatists concern themselves with branding or promoting the movement. Seems sort of off-brand, I should think.

(Traitorfish used to have a cool signature line: something to the effect of "I'm an anarchist. Join me. Or don't.")
 
What a great old thread!

Illegal or not, it is still happening just about everywhere.
 
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