M-16 and AK-47

[Bugfatty300]

ps2.cans are all you can kill at 300m with m16

The velocity of a 5.56mm at 600 yards is 1,150 feet per seconed. Thats about the same as a 9mm bullet from a pistol at 10 yards.

If your were hit with a 5.56mm in the forehead or heart at 600 yards you would die instantly.

At 300 yards(300 meter area) the velocity is 2,000 fps.

Enough to cause hydrostatic shock.
http://www.xmission.com/~fractil/math/kp.html

 

[Jawz II]

do you kill cans at 300 m with bipod, scope and from prone position?
cause i didnt realize we were discussing the 2 weapons in the sniper role!

of course i was exaggerating when i said you cant kill anything at 300m with m16, the 5.56 is a millitary round fired from a rifle, but with that kind of power, just like a 9mm pistol at 10m, you better hit a guy in the open mouth, or the eye

only at those distances if you do hit,it will most likely be to the body, where aks superior power/bullets size can make a diffrence!

Japan and India are part of NATO? How do you explain all the other non-NATO countries that have adopted the 5.56mm?

And even the soviets ditched the 7.62*39 for the 5.45*39mm.

This is a flawed arguement.

youre absolutly right,just because japan and india arent in northwest europe(NATO=North Atlantic Treaty Organisiation) they had nothing to fear from soviet!!!

never mind the fact theyve had wars with the ruskie at one point or another...


and why did the russians drop the 7.62 x 39?

its not as innaccurate as rumor says,any innaccuracy is from crap ammo quality,as someone mentioned bad sights, bad rifles etc

american made 7.65x39 ammo is probably alot more accurate

the dimnesions main diffrence with 5.56x45 is that it packs more propellant,(=more power) and bigger bullet (more injury) so why oh why?


why did america go with 5.56 and not for example 5.55?

why are there new trends in womens clothing and mens every year??

why where there trends in how armours and swords should look like back in the middle ages with the knights???

why have many other countries followed these trends but some, for example finland has not????

if i knew the answers to all lifes question, id be a rich man!

do yourself a favour and read that article i posted, its very well written and entertaining as well as being educational!

ps.as far as hyro schock goes,well ive read articles about all kinds of diffrent shocks and traumas bullets cause,and why one is more lethal than another.

somehow the smaller ones usually claim to be badder than their size suggests, which goes against the laws of physics and universe

ive been in debates about those things,tumbling bullets etc so im not gonna debate it with you!

instead ill just quote that article you posted, here is the 1st 4 words in that article: "The debate goes on..."



ps.check your sources and maybe some new ones about the velocity of the 5.56, its defenitly lower than 1000 m/s, seriously doubt its over 800 m/s
(were not talkin yard/second or anything?)

at least with standard issue ball ammo, and standard m16!

heres some data from that link i posted:

7.62 NATO (M14 & M60 Machine-gun):

Bullet Weight = 150 grains
Nominal Muzzle Velocity = approximately 2700 fps.
Muzzle Energy = 2427 ft. Lbs.
Muzzle Energy at 500 yds. = 1576 ft. lbs.



5.56 NATO (XM16E1):

Bullet Weight = 55 grains
Nominal Muzzle Velocity = approximately 3185 fps
Muzzle Energy = 1239 ft. lbs.
Muzzle Energy at 500 yds. = 252 ft. lbs.



.22 Long Rifle (Generic .22 Rifle):

Bullet Weight = 40 grains
Nominal Muzzle Velocity = 1335 fps. (high velocity ctg.)
Muzzle Energy = 158 ft. lbs
Muzzle Energy at 500 yds. = ?



7.62 X 39 (AK-47):

Bullet Weight = 125 grains

Nominal Muzzle Velocity = 2400 fps.

Muzzle Energy = 1598 ft. lbs.

Muzzle Energy at 500 yds. = 414 ft. lbs.



.30 Carbine:

Bullet Weight = 110 grains
Nominal Muzzle Velocity = approximately 2000 fps.
Muzzle Energy = 976 ft. lbs.
Muzzle Energy at 500 yds. = 182 ft. lbs.

 

[Gelion]

Lol when did India ever fight with the Russians?

 

[Jawz II]

lol before

as in earlierlol

 

[Gelion]

Under the Mongols right?

 

[Jawz II]

how is this relevant?
the fact is india is neighbours with communist china and back then soviet union!

if it came to war with any of them, then, or even now, indias ass would be grass, without US help!

whats your point?

 

[Gelion]

My point is that you said that India fought with Russia/USSR which is not true. India never had a border with USSR/Russia its north was protected by Afghanistan. Inida in fact was in many ways pro-communist, although anti-China.
But again I don't want to get into this discussion. Just making fun of you (no offence I hope

 

[Jawz II]

no offense, i was yanking yer chain a bit too, all wellmeant fun/teasing

ill admit, i didnt check it
i just assumed that as human nature predicts, theyve been in a war/skirmish or 2 with their neighbours,the russians (the ruskie is the word i used) in one point in history or other, i never said they were in a war with soviet

but they were affraid of soviet

i know japan was! (in war with them and after ww2 scared of them!)

 

[MarineCorps]

ps3.read this article, written by an officer who served in nam,and was one of the first to be issued what he calls: "the little black gun that wouldnt shoot"

http://www.jouster.com/articles30m1/index.html

Thats from Nam. The gun malfunctioned half the time and Jammed the other time. The fixed all of that stuff before Nam ended. The main reasons for the problems was the fact that no cleaning kits were issued. You'll notice the title: The Saga of the M16 in Vietnam.

 

[Jawz II]

yes the 1st page is about nam

the rest is not all about nam,keep reading

 

[Bugfatty300]

do you kill cans at 300 m with bipod, scope and from prone position?

No. I use a 1-4x32mm my Colt and a Tasco 32mm on my Bushmaster. I don't even have a bipod.

They are both HBs. Alot different than M-16A1 of Vietnam. More like todays 20" M16A2s.

You never heard of combat scopes? Not red dot scopes but zooming opticals? There is a picture of the Canadian M-16, the C7 in my artical with one on it which is standard I belive.

of course i was exaggerating when i said you cant kill anything at 300m with m16, the 5.56 is a millitary round fired from a rifle, but with that kind of power, just like a 9mm pistol at 10m, you better hit a guy in the open mouth, or the eye

Huh? A 9mm bullet is deadly out to 50 meters.

My .177 BB gun can penetrate flesh at 500 fps. What do think a 9mm will do at 1,200 fps?

ps.check your sources and maybe some new ones about the velocity of the 5.56, its defenitly lower than 1000 m/s, seriously doubt its over 800 m/s

Ummmm 3185 feet per second = 970.78 meters per second.

Use this online converter if you don't believe me.
Metric Converter

 

[Bizon77]

its not as innaccurate as rumor says,any innaccuracy is from crap ammo quality,as someone mentioned bad sights, bad rifles etc

Nobody doubt the accuracy of the 762*39. Its just that the general AKM weapons are not accurate with the exception of few heavily refined versions and the other 7.62 rifle the SKS I think.

 

[Jawz II]

sksis slightly more accurate, but is alot better for sniping due to the clip feeding,you cant really go prone with an ak (remember the banana clip)

5.56 is greaet at close range, but as an all round cartridge its no good, if you dont mind carrying 2 kinds of ammo in every squad,then it works (although again you would find it underpowered at mid-long range)

hell as i said, if i had to pick a gun,id pick g3 or g21, 7.62 nato, not ak or m16!

but if i had to pick an assault rifle i would go with something chambered in russian 7.62 rather than 5.56,because its closer to a full size round than the 5.56!!

also aks are more reliable, weight slightly more, but its worth it

i hear m16s of today work fine, but have to be cleaned alot, and do jam even when theyre clean, but not often

ive fired m16 only once, and it worked fine, however i didnt have to take it apart and clean it, and if it has to be cleaned every 4 hours(which is what ive heard from an army guy) then its pain in the ass

ps.9mm is deadly at no range

 

[YotoKiller]

ps.check your sources and maybe some new ones about the velocity of the 5.56, its defenitly lower than 1000 m/s, seriously doubt its over 800 m/s
(were not talkin yard/second or anything?)

3100 fps is over 900 mps just by simple math.

ps.9mm is deadly at no range

Your kidding right?

ive fired m16 only once, and it worked fine, however i didnt have to take it apart and clean it, and if it has to be cleaned every 4 hours(which is what ive heard from an army guy) then its pain in the ass

Well what he told you is bullcrap. You determin when to clean a rifle based on how many shots its fired. In Iraq U.S. soldiers clean them at least once to twice a day because they don't keep track of the shots they've fired.

 

[Jawz II]

you have a way of stating the obvious

or not see it alltogether

 

[Bugfatty300]

@Yotokiller: Good point.

I clean mine every time I use it. The manual says you should clean it every 500 rounds but I have went through 700-800 in weeks period with out cleaning it.

And I hope he was kidding about a 9mm not being deadly

 

[Bugfatty300]

no offense, i was yanking yer chain a bit too, all wellmeant fun/teasing

ill admit, i didnt check it
i just assumed that as human nature predicts, theyve been in a war/skirmish or 2 with their neighbours,the russians (the ruskie is the word i used) in one point in history or other, i never said they were in a war with soviet

but they were affraid of soviet

i know japan was! (in war with them and after ww2 scared of them!)

Actually Russia and India were allies during the Cold War due to the Pakistan factor(Especially during the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan). I don't see were you get the idea they were enemies.

 

[Jawz II]

this is futile

 

[YotoKiller]

Why? Becasue you are wrong?

 

[Jawz II]

3100 fps is over 900 mps just by simple math.



Your kidding right?



Well what he told you is bullcrap. You determin when to clean a rifle based on how many shots its fired. In Iraq U.S. soldiers clean them at least once to twice a day because they don't keep track of the shots they've fired.

ok instead of "you have a way of stating the obvious" i shouldve just stuck to simpler words and said DUUUH!

of course i meant m16 has to be cleaned after 4 hours of shooting!!!
if you left it on the table after cleaning, of course you wouldnt come back every 4 hours and clean it again and the again every 4th hour!!

how old are you people anyway?

how obvious do i have to be?


india and soviet were not allies, are you kidding me?
if they were surely they wouldve picked the 7.62x39 or the 5.54, they were scared of them, like the rest of the world, but that didnt change the fact the russians made the most affordable military hardware, which many 3rd world countries bought!!

also throwing them a bundle of money (buying from them) would make them more friendly!

and anyway if you wanna talk indian weapons, what design did they knock off? m16 or ak?

do you know that?

anyway i dont wanna keep this debate going, cause if i have to tell you all this stuff ^ then i feel like i should be paid like teachers do!


ps.obviously i was wrong about m16 muzzle velocity, its obviously slighly higher that i thought,i learned that stuff long time ago, a bit rusty with the numbers i suppose