M-16 and AK-47

bigmeat said:
what sucks about the m16 is it only operates in burst, thats why the m4 and car15 are gaining in popularity
The M16A1 was full-auto. Having been issed the A1 and the A2 at various points, I think the A2 is a generally superior weapon. Having full-auto is only more useful in certain specific circumstances (close quarters), and a little bit of training time can make up for that. For engaging targets at distance, the 3-round burst was easy to control. It's just awfully easy to let a "three to five round burst" turn into barrage that dumps half the magazine into the sky....

My gripes about the A2: The more complex rear sight was a little more trouble to keep clean. This is offset by greater precision in the sights... a small price to pay for the increased accuracy. I would have preferred that the heavier barrel extend all the way from the back of the front sight to the front of the receiver, like in the civilian AR-15 version. The barrel on the proper M16A2 was made thinner to accomodate grenade launchers. But the extra weight out front was nice.

My gripes about the A1: With the older ammunition, it really was not an easy weapon to shoot well beyond 250m or so with much wind at all. Since it has a slower rate of barrel twist than the A2, it won't perform as well with the newer ammunition as the A2 does. Engaging targets at ranges of 300m+ was harder with the A1 than with the A2.

As for the AK47, it's crude compared to the M16A2. Its biggest redeeming value is its simplicity. It takes seconds to field strip one and wipe off the parts that can cause jamming if dirty. You can teach someone to field strip that weapon in minutes. Given an afternoon, you can teach them to field strip it and put it back together blindfolded... which makes for nice propaganda films... The AK's muzzle tends to climb a little more than the M16, as I remember. It was an easy weapon to shoot "well enough", but I don't know if too many of them were capable of tack-driving accuracy at longer ranges. IIRC, the trajectory of the 7.62x39 is not as flat as the 5.56 NATO round... but it's been a while since I've compared the ballistics...
 
Jawz II said:
india and soviet were not allies, are you kidding me?
if they were surely they wouldve picked the 7.62x39 or the 5.54, they were scared of them, like the rest of the world, but that didnt change the fact the russians made the most affordable military hardware, which many 3rd world countries bought!!

Uhhh. They did 15, 20, 30 years ago. The cold war ended 15 years ago. The Indians replaced their old AKs with 5.56 rifles along time ago.

and anyway if you wanna talk indian weapons, what design did they knock off? m16 or ak?

do you know that?

The 5.56x45mm INSAS rifles series are hybrids of Israeli Galils and German G3s and M-16s.
 
The INSAS rifle is broadly based on the famous Kalashnikov AK-47 action, but with many modifications. The basic gas-operated action with long stroke gas piston and a rotating bolt, as well as the stamped steel receiver, are generally the same as in modern Kalashnikov rifles. However, the gas system is fitted with a manual gas regulator, similar in design to that found on FN FAL rifles, as well as a gas cutoff. The charging handle has been moved from the bolt carrier to the left side of the forearm; it is similar in position and design to German HK G3 rifle. The selector / safety switch is located at the left side of the receiver, above the pistol grip, and allows for single shots and three round bursts. The rifle is fitted with a side-folding carrying handle, and either a solid or side-folding metal buttstock. Furniture can be made from wood or polymer. Standard magazines are made from semi-translucent polymer and contain 20 rounds. Longer 30-round magazines of similar design are available for the INSAS LMG but can also be used in the rifle. The sights consist of a hooded front, mounted on top of the gas block, and a diopter rear, mounted on the receiver cover. The flash hider is shaped to accept NATO-standard rifle grenades. INSAS rifles can be fitted with AKM-style multipurpose knife-bayonets.

from:
http://world.guns.ru/assault/as67-e.htm

its a copy of the galil, which is a copy of what?
thats right, ak

is it looks like an ak, and works like an ak then its m16??

i have a feeling you will defend the m16 with teeth and nails, come hell or high waters or even facts, because of national pride!

you cant argue intelligently with a mans emotions so im gonna leave this alone

good luck plinking!
 
I'm sure all this knowledge of assault rifle obscura will come in very handy for you people someday. :D
 
The M16 IMO would work nicely with a redone operating system; reportedly the HKM4 uses a G36-style piston instead of the "defecate where it eats" system that Eugene Stoner put in.

Then again, can we start arguing about the XM8 LAR now? :D
 
i have a feeling you will defend the m16 with teeth and nails, come hell or high waters or even facts, because of national pride!

Yeah ok. All I'm saying is that the M-16 and 5.56mm is effective to 300 meters. You seem to be especially commited to the 7.62x39 beyond all doubt. There are a lot of better rifles than the M-16. All of them modern. All them European or Israeli. The M-16 is out dated, no doubt. Its design is over 50 years old. Is that what you wanted to here?

But I would still take a 5.56x45mm rifle over a 7.62x39mm rifle any day. And no I not choose an M-16 :rolleyes:
 
Edward Yee said:
The M16 IMO would work nicely with a redone operating system; reportedly the HKM4 uses a G36-style piston instead of the "defecate where it eats" system that Eugene Stoner put in.

Then again, can we start arguing about the XM8 LAR now? :D

The XM8s are incredible looking. More reliability and %20 lighter than the M4 carbine. Excellent replacement.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/m8-oicw.htm
 
This seems a debate about 7,62 vs 5,56 calibers. I think this has little interest because certainly they are very different.

What about AK-74 vs M-16?
 
Bugfatty300 said:
The Russians can lay claim to developing the first true assault rifle over the Germans. The relatively unknown Federov Automat of 1916 was a selective fire shoulder arm of good design and was used by both sides during the Russian revolution but production was ceased under communist rule. During World War II, the Germans had developed a variety of selective fire ’assault rifles.’ The FG42 parachutists rifle, the Stug44, the VG1-5. As well as a new cartridge, the 7.92x33 Kurz. Simply the 7.92x57mm cartridge with a shortened casing. The advancing Red Army noticed the cartridge as well as the new rifles that fired them.

During the war the Soviets hastily developed the SKS and the new 7.62x39mm M1943 cartridge to go with it but it had come to late to see action. The SKS lived a short life in the hands of the Red Army who replaced it with a new rifle designed by a talented soldier/inventor named Mikhail Kalashnikov who came up with the idea while recovering from wounds in a hospital.

The new rifle was named the Kalashnikova Automat model 47 or simply the AK-47. The rifle first went into production in 1949 and entered service with the Soviet military in 1951. It was a robust and highly reliable design. This was greatly due to the fact that Kalashnikov had designed the AK-47 with idea that moving parts should be loosely fitted given more room.

Later the Soviets produced the AKM which was made from stampings rather than the expensive milling for the AK-47. This is the most common version of the AK-47. The soviets also produced the AKS-47 which featured a folding stock.

The AK-47 first saw action during the Eastern European revolts of the 1950s. This is also were the west first became aware of the new weapon. At the time the standard American rifle was still the post-war M-1 Garand. Needless to say the U.S. and the NATO nations viewed the AK-47 with skepticism.

The Soviets strictly withheld the AK-47 from Warsaw Pact nations and their communist allies to the east for some years after it had entered Soviet service. The first foreign copies of the AK-47 were made in China in the late-1950s. 50 million copies and versions of the AK-47 have been produced around the world, in fact very few AK-47s were actually made. Although virtually all developed nations discard the AK-47 in favor of western assault rifles it has become favorite of 3rd world nations, guerilla fighters and terrorists organizations and is still the service rifle of most Eastern European nations.

The first AK-47s began to seep into North Vietnam around the mid-1960s. Before then the North Vietnamese relied on a hodge-podge of vintage Japanese, American, French and old Soviet weapons and the occasionally captured M-16 (when its ammo was readily available.) Most were of inferior Chinese manufacture compared to the higher quality Soviet versions. Yet the North Vietnamese army and Vietcong made good use of them.

In the early 70s, the Soviet Union recognized the effectiveness of the 5.56x45mm cartridge and developed their own, the 5.45x39mm and converted the AKM design to fire it and it was called the AK-74 and replaced the AK-47 as the standard Red Army rifle. The AK-74 had several advantages over the AKM-47. Including modern plastic magazines and improves accuracy. The AK-74 was used extensively in Afghanistan where the 5.45mm quickly earned the name ‘poison bullet’ by Afghan guerillas because of the hydro shock wounds it caused.

In the early 80s, the AKSU-74 was introduced into the Afghanistan conflict. The AKSU is a sized down AK-74 submachine gun or carbine that featured a bell-shaped flash hider.

Countless versions of the AK-47 have been developed in attempts to modernize the aging AK-47 design. The Israeli IMI Galil is a descendant of the AK-47. Further attempts to modernize the AK-47 design include converting some to the 5.56x45mm round such as the Zastava M80 and the Kalashnikov AK-100 series rifles have been pretty successful, greatly increasing the accuracy. The Chinese have even developed a bull-pup version of the AK-47.

The AK-47 is with-out a doubt the most stolen rifle design in history. Millions of AK-47 knock-offs have been made with-out license in countries around the world. A true AK-47. Today In the United States a Romanian SAR imported copy of the AK-47 cost about $200 - $300.

The AK-47 has since become the hands-down symbol of terrorism and 3rd world violence. 56 years after designing the AK-47, Mikhail Kalashnikov expressed his regret when he said that he wished he had invented a lawnmower instead. But maintaining that his intentions were to make Russia a safer place after seeing the horrors done to it during 2nd World War.


The Cons

The AK-47 has several major limitations. The AK-47 is especially susceptible to over-heating in full automatic mode sometimes even in extended semi-automatic mode and has a unusually high rate of ‘cook-offs’ (Chambered rounds that go off because of the over-heating) which can be quite hazardous the person using it. The most serious drawback to the AK-47 is its low muzzle velocity of 2,340 fps. (710 meters per second) This results in a looping trajectory that requires a clumsy adjustment for accuracy at ranges beyond 300 meters. The AK-47 is also a little heavy compared to the M-16 and modern European weapons.

U forgot the AKm. Smaler version of AK47. Just pours out lead, give up aiming with that thing. U all hear of the An-94. It looks like a Ak but different. I saw it at a firing range, and it is the best, virtually no muzzleclim. Too bad Russia is too poor to outfit it's army with the best fighting rifle in the world
 
Damnyankee said:
U forgot the AKm. Smaler version of AK47. Just pours out lead, give up aiming with that thing. U all hear of the An-94. It looks like a Ak but different. I saw it at a firing range, and it is the best, virtually no muzzleclim. Too bad Russia is too poor to outfit it's army with the best fighting rifle in the world

I think I did mention the AKM.

From my artical:
Later the Soviets produced the AKM which was made from stampings rather than the expensive milling for the AK-47. This is the most common version of the AK-47. The soviets also produced the AKS-47 which featured a folding stock.
 
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