Macedonia - A Naming Issue (split off from Altered Maps XVI)

[Takhisis]

...I am at a loss for words for how primitive and pitiful this is

Bearing in mind that I don't consider all explanations to be justifications, read this post I made last October on the issue.

 

[Phrossack]

Bearing in mind that I don't consider all explanations to be justifications, read this post I made last October on the issue.

There are countries far older than the US that have matured past violent temper tantrums over a name. Slavs have been in that region for a millennium and a half, and the region is called Macedonia, so they call it that. And still you get Greeks who are incensed by this basic acknowledgment, so they bully Macedonians around on the basis of a name. When the Macedonians finally bow to the demands, you get national chauvinists so incensed that the Macedonians were accorded any dignity at all that they resort to violence. The sorts of Greek chauvinists who call it "Fyromia" unironically, who actually think that Macedonia's puny military could threaten Greece's large military and the combined forces of NATO, over a name, can't be reasoned with. They're the same chauvinistic, thin-skinned, easily offended and delicate types who demand war over the Diaoyu/Senkaku rocks, or demand death for insulting the Prophet. It's the same insanity that has dragged humanity into two world wars and countless smaller ones, and nobody should have any patience for it.

 

[Takhisis]

I did say that I don't consider all explanations to be justifications.

 

[Phrossack]

I did say that I don't consider all explanations to be justifications.

Oh, I'm not saying you were, don't worry. Just pointing out the weakness, narcissism, and violence inherent in national chauvinism, and why such people shouldn't be heeded.

 

[FriendlyFire]

Unfortunately, they can't call it the "Republic of Bulgarihobonia"

Didnt the Bulgaria carry out ethnic cleansing of the ancient area of Macedonia during ww2 ? I think they were worse then the German occupiers whom controlled most of the south
Can the balkans countries please get along for once.

 

[Arwon]

Congratulations to Greece on winning the dumbest dispute in the world

 

[Arwon]

Yes. However, the thing remains.

 

[Kyriakos]

Useful to note that slavdreamia wont be in the eu- it can't be voted upon by this gov, and this gov is polling at gtfo asap levels.
Slavsomething might - not certain- manage to become a new nato vassal, though. Bordering kosovo, with which it will soon share an albanian majority.
Now, due to what this thread has seen, i certainly will never bother posting here again- need to breathe etc

 

[Broken_Erika]

Useful to note that slavdreamia wont be in the eu- it can't be voted upon by this gov, and this gov is polling at gtfo asap levels.
Slavsomething might - not certain- manage to become a new nato vassal, though. Bordering kosovo, with which it will soon share an albanian majority.
Now, due to what this thread has seen, i certainly will never bother posting here again- need to breathe etc

Sorry Kyr' they just can't call it "The Bulgarian Hobo Republic of Bulgarihobonia"

 

[BenitoChavez]

The Greek parliament has passed the vote accepting the name North Macedonia.

So...uh...maybe it's just because I haven't read the thread other than the first two posts. But why does one country get to determine the name of another country?

 

[Phrossack]

So...uh...maybe it's just because I haven't read the thread other than the first two posts. But why does one country get to determine the name of another country?

Macedonia's government wanted to join the EU, but Greece blocked it because the Greeks think that the Macedonians naming their country after the land it's on is a claim to a region of Greece of the same name. It's not, but you know how nationalists are.

The Macedonians compromised their own name to appease the Greeks. The Greek government grudgingly accepted this compromise but now the Greek nationalists are rioting. They really need a hobby or something.

 

[Takhisis]

So...uh...maybe it's just because I haven't read the thread other than the first two posts. But why does one country get to determine the name of another country?

For a longer and fuller explanation than Phrossack's, QFT:

Bearing in mind that I don't consider all explanations to be justifications, read this post I made last October on the issue.

 

[Hrothbern]

Hopefully everyone will ratify North Macedonia's membership , Trump is the only problem I am aware of, then the next step will be joining the EU.

From BBC
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-47139118

I want the weight of the vote of members to be proportional with their democratic index, corruption index, etc.

We better make better use of the lessons learned of the last big wave of new members regarding gerrymandering, freedom of press, rule of law (constitution and supreme court), corruption, tax system, etc, etc, etc.
Meaning in many cases a much longer transition period before entering as full member (and during that transition, as happens indeed now, ample support at civil society level etc where needed).
And before embarking in that way forward, and when completed, in both cases a qualified majority referendum for the people. They should know, decide freely before committing and sharing.

What happened with East Europe was that the EU was also used for NATO interests (and yes.. the cost involved not seen as military defense expenditures for peace, at least not by Trumpians and many others).
This NATO effect is happening again with North-Macedonia and all these countries there.

We need also before they join as full member another solution for the EU veto system when these super small countries start pooring in.

 

[Takhisis]

After all, FYROM-ia was one of the places where teenagers went full BurgerKing-mode and started selling 'Muricans whatever lies they liked during the 2016 presidential campaign.