Magic Items

Gileyal

Chieftain
Joined
Apr 24, 2006
Messages
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I hope its ok I'm starting a new thread. I couldn't find any thread which relates to this directly.

Kael - are you accepting suggestions for magic items? These would behave like Orthus' Axe (go to the unit killing the holder) and can be found by your units in various ways (i.e. beating an enemy leader, killing a certain barbarian, completing certain tasks).

Is this something you'd be interested in?
 
Gileyal said:
I hope its ok I'm starting a new thread. I couldn't find any thread which relates to this directly.

Kael - are you accepting suggestions for magic items? These would behave like Orthus' Axe (go to the unit killing the holder) and can be found by your units in various ways (i.e. beating an enemy leader, killing a certain barbarian, completing certain tasks).

Is this something you'd be interested in?

Sure, always interested in new ideas. They probably won't be implemented until shadow. Here are a few guidelines (not that they cant be broken):

1. "Magic items" in the mod represent powerful artifacts, not just +1 longswords. Those are covered by automatic promotions and the enchantment spells. So when you think of an item think of a relic that has existed since the Age of Magic and carries with it a history and interesting effect.

2. Im not to interested in items that only have their uberness to offer. A sword that gives +300% combat isnt very interesting. Or its better to say that we have already considered and planned for those sorts of objects, what we can use from the community are more creative ideas.

3. There will probably only ever be a handful of magic items in the game. Im not a fan of overusing a mechanic. Dragons are cool, but i only want 3. Magic items are the same, they impact is minimilized if they are overused. So think about what items you would want to have if you were only limited to 5 of them.

4. Equipment mechanics have to be best suited for equipment. You could have a great idea for an item that is better used as a unit ability, spell or wonder (not that that is a total waste as ill gladly use the mechanic in another form).

5. Along the previous two guidelines the items primary ability should be unique. A wand that lets the wielder cast fireballs isnt unique. A wand that lets the wielder cast blue fireballs, well thats not unique either (dont try to trick me :D )

6. The trick is to come up with a very simple concept that has a practical game effect and good flavor.

Lets look at an example:

Idea- A Vampiric Blade that heals its wielder whenever it kills a living opponent.
[tab]Fun: Players could enjoy it, no one will download the mod to try it out. Kinda a 5 out of 10 for fun.
[tab]Design: No effect most of the time, it only applies when the wielder is attacked multiple times. Therefor it is most effective for defensive units fighting off waves of lower level units. Negates the usefulness of healing spells and medic units for the wielder which is bad but minor considering that it only applies to 1 unit. 3 out of 10 for Design.
[tab]Flavor: Flavor on this item is pretty good. It fits the genre, is appropriate for a weapon, and is easy to match an evocative name to the effect that most players will be able to quickly recognize and remember. 8 out of 10 for Flavor.

So kinda a medicore equipment idea. Anything being recommended should be more interesting than that sword.
 
Crown of Ishrazephi

Ishrazephi the sorcerer was always a loner. Since his young days, growing up in an orphanage in the small city of Yavne, he had trouble befriending his fellow man. His frail body, along with unique intelligence had always made him an outcast. He was viewed by others as odd. Almost unbearable, he would always say the wrong thing in the wrong time.

As a child, he would always get picked on by his classmates. Until one day, at approximately the age of 14, while being picked on by a bully, Ishrazephi uttered these words: "arth, mikara, soku".

An uncontrollable blaze filled the school yard, after which Ishrazephi stood standing. Where once was his school, lied only ashes and charred bodies of his old classmates and teachers, the weak cries of the survivors' agony left unheard by Ishrazephi.

Ishrazephi himself had burned his clothes entirely, and found himself running almost naked into the woods surrounding Yavne. That was where he hid for several years, knowing the king himself had offered a prize for his head.

He had dreamed of redeaming himself. Returning to Yavne as a king. He hunted during the days, and dedicated the nights for his magnificent project. A magic item which would earn him the respect of the people of Yavne, and allow him to enter back into society. He worked dilligently, but couldn't decipher the exact way to finish his project.

Until one day a loud screech had awaken Ishra. He opened his eyes to see an unbelievable army of barbarian creatures surrounding the city of Yavne. A catapult at its gates. He stood helpless as the first rock was released. Minutes later, the frail wall of Yavne was no more, and army of Orcs storming in, raping the women and killing the helpless children.

At first, Ishrazephi stood in shock, but then he decided - now would be his chance to redeem himself. Though he had no practical experience, he had delved deep into research of magic.

He opened with a meteor shower, killing almost half of the surprised orcs, along with any of Yavne's citizen's who had survived the attack up until then. He followed with a lightning bolt and several additional spells, diminishing the numbers of the shocked orcs.

Suddenly he came to a halt. His powers were exhausted, and while he had killed a majority of the orcs, several remained.

There was a moment of silence, each side uncertain. It then occured to the orcs that his powers were gone. They began inching closer slowly.

Ishrazephi stumbled backwards, falling. He knew this could be the end. He searched through his robes hopelessly, finally deciding to try a desperate ploy. He grabbes the item he had spent the last ten years working on, and placed it on his head.

"I am your king! Thou shall bow before me!". He then began mumbling enchantments, hoping the orcs would mistake them for another powerful spell.

To his amazement the orcs halted, looking at each other. They then turned their backs, dropping any items that weren't attached to their bodies and fled.

Ever since that day, Isrhazephi's item was known as the Crown of Ishrazephi, though it looks like a round metal pole. Bards have told stories about it, claiming that any barbarian who sees a person wearing the Crown of Ishrazephi immediately flees due to its unique magical power. Others claim that it does not really have any magical powers whatsoever. As a matter of fact, those stupid orcs simply ran away spreading a ridiculous rumour which eventually grew to gigantic proportions.

Either way, anyone wearing the Crown of Ishrazephi, if it really exists, and his party, is safe from a barbarian attack.

- - - - - -

Crown of Ishrazephi

effect - barbarian units do not attack its wearer or anyone in the same block. If there is a "fear" effect in the game, it may also be an option.



- - - - -

I hope you like it... spent some time writing it. Of course, its absolutely your option and I won't be insulted if you don't think its right for this great mod.
 
Magic Carpet - Owner and say one other unit can travel over any terrain.

Everflowing Bottle - A special unit produced by a wonder. If activated all units adjacent to the bottle square are destroyed, and the terrain become coast.

Banners of Light and Dark - Maybe allow free passage through all evil/good territories, can't be attacked by evil/good civ units, small bonus for stack v evil/good.

Intelligent Cursed Weapon - Taking the weapon...good combat bonus, but it is random each turn to see if the AI moves for you, or you control unit actions.

The Eye of Mordor - A wonder that lets you see a certain amount of squares anywhere on the map.

Orc warhorn - A special unit that summons x amount of orcs to fight for you, but can only be activated once before being destroyed.

Wand that allows a special attack that turns target units into different units... Ex: Wand of Chaos...chance to turn target into barbarian demon spawn, or maybe a random animal. Only usable by mage of some kind.

Sword of Banishment - Powerful weapon against demons, and small all around combat bonus. Using this on enemies also has a percentage chance of sending them to the hell map when tech level is right.

I've got a ton of ideas...I'll post more later.
 
Something that I have been tinkering with is having promotions purchasable with gold. It would probably translate well with all of these promotions.
 
Gileyal said:
Crown of Ishrazephi

Ishrazephi the sorcerer was always a loner. Since his young days, growing up in an orphanage in the small city of Yavne, he had trouble befriending his fellow man. His frail body, along with unique intelligence had always made him an outcast. He was viewed by others as odd. Almost unbearable, he would always say the wrong thing in the wrong time.

As a child, he would always get picked on by his classmates. Until one day, at approximately the age of 14, while being picked on by a bully, Ishrazephi uttered these words: "arth, mikara, soku".

An uncontrollable blaze filled the school yard, after which Ishrazephi stood standing. Where once was his school, lied only ashes and charred bodies of his old classmates and teachers, the weak cries of the survivors' agony left unheard by Ishrazephi.

Ishrazephi himself had burned his clothes entirely, and found himself running almost naked into the woods surrounding Yavne. That was where he hid for several years, knowing the king himself had offered a prize for his head.

He had dreamed of redeaming himself. Returning to Yavne as a king. He hunted during the days, and dedicated the nights for his magnificent project. A magic item which would earn him the respect of the people of Yavne, and allow him to enter back into society. He worked dilligently, but couldn't decipher the exact way to finish his project.

Until one day a loud screech had awaken Ishra. He opened his eyes to see an unbelievable army of barbarian creatures surrounding the city of Yavne. A catapult at its gates. He stood helpless as the first rock was released. Minutes later, the frail wall of Yavne was no more, and army of Orcs storming in, raping the women and killing the helpless children.

At first, Ishrazephi stood in shock, but then he decided - now would be his chance to redeem himself. Though he had no practical experience, he had delved deep into research of magic.

He opened with a meteor shower, killing almost half of the surprised orcs, along with any of Yavne's citizen's who had survived the attack up until then. He followed with a lightning bolt and several additional spells, diminishing the numbers of the shocked orcs.

Suddenly he came to a halt. His powers were exhausted, and while he had killed a majority of the orcs, several remained.

There was a moment of silence, each side uncertain. It then occured to the orcs that his powers were gone. They began inching closer slowly.

Ishrazephi stumbled backwards, falling. He knew this could be the end. He searched through his robes hopelessly, finally deciding to try a desperate ploy. He grabbes the item he had spent the last ten years working on, and placed it on his head.

"I am your king! Thou shall bow before me!". He then began mumbling enchantments, hoping the orcs would mistake them for another powerful spell.

To his amazement the orcs halted, looking at each other. They then turned their backs, dropping any items that weren't attached to their bodies and fled.

Ever since that day, Isrhazephi's item was known as the Crown of Ishrazephi, though it looks like a round metal pole. Bards have told stories about it, claiming that any barbarian who sees a person wearing the Crown of Ishrazephi immediately flees due to its unique magical power. Others claim that it does not really have any magical powers whatsoever. As a matter of fact, those stupid orcs simply ran away spreading a ridiculous rumour which eventually grew to gigantic proportions.

Either way, anyone wearing the Crown of Ishrazephi, if it really exists, and his party, is safe from a barbarian attack.

- - - - - -

Crown of Ishrazephi

effect - barbarian units do not attack its wearer or anyone in the same block. If there is a "fear" effect in the game, it may also be an option.



- - - - -

I hope you like it... spent some time writing it. Of course, its absolutely your option and I won't be insulted if you don't think its right for this great mod.

There is a fear ability on the game and I wouldnt want to copy that mechanic for an item. I love your writeup and I hate to waste it so dont worry about providing that level of detail until the mechanic is accepted.
 
Most of these are similiar to spells that already in the game or design docs.

Starship said:
Magic Carpet - Owner and say one other unit can travel over any terrain.

Better done as the Fly spell.

Everflowing Bottle - A special unit produced by a wonder. If activated all units adjacent to the bottle square are destroyed, and the terrain become coast.

Better done as the Tsunami spell.

Banners of Light and Dark - Maybe allow free passage through all evil/good territories, can't be attacked by evil/good civ units, small bonus for stack v evil/good.

This idea I like. I may include some sort of item that makes you unable to be attacked by creatures of a certain alignment or type. Hmm..

Intelligent Cursed Weapon - Taking the weapon...good combat bonus, but it is random each turn to see if the AI moves for you, or you control unit actions.

This will confuse casual players.

The Eye of Mordor - A wonder that lets you see a certain amount of squares anywhere on the map.

This was the origional idea for the Throne of Omniscience, which eventually got changed to the Omniscience tech.

Orc warhorn - A special unit that summons x amount of orcs to fight for you, but can only be activated once before being destroyed.

This is the recruit spell.

Wand that allows a special attack that turns target units into different units... Ex: Wand of Chaos...chance to turn target into barbarian demon spawn, or maybe a random animal. Only usable by mage of some kind.

This will cause players to reload until they get a good result, not fun.

Sword of Banishment - Powerful weapon against demons, and small all around combat bonus. Using this on enemies also has a percentage chance of sending them to the hell map when tech level is right.

This is the Banish spell.
 
Thanks. I'll try to think something up, or if anybody has good ideas but doesn't like doing the writeup, I'll be happy to help.
 
There is a fear ability on the game and I wouldnt want to copy that mechanic for an item.

The crown might yet be "saved" by a slight alteration to the background story. If it was altered so that the orcs did not flee, but instead bowed down to him, aknowledging him as a ruler, it could probably have a somewhat different mechanic.
The crown could then grant the same effect as the Barbarian trait(except the research penalty) to the civ that controls it. They would be at peace with the barbarians as long as one of their units held the crown.

For the Clan and Dolviello leaders which are already at peace with the barbarians, it might have some other effect. Perhaps it could grant them control of a certain % of barbarian units/settlements.

In a game with large landmass and raging barbarians turned on, I imagine the crown would become a very sought-after artifact.

EDIT: Perhaps the Crown also gives a boost in diplomatic relations with the Clan
 
Feel free to make any changes you like. I really like your idea, and it was similar to what I had at mind in first, but was wondering if this wasn't too strong.
 
Whitefire said:
Something that I have been tinkering with is having promotions purchasable with gold. It would probably translate well with all of these promotions.

This would be sort of cool. You could build a weapon shop (national wonder) where you could purchase various weapons and armor. And as different techs and/or resources are discovered, more expensive and diverse promotions/weapons become available.
 
Hmm that reminds me of.. hmmm ... oh yes. How about equipping that Warrior with an Axe. Oh now he is an Axeman. And hmm lets give him that new cool weapon there how is it called? Exactly Mace. Lets call him an Maceman now.

It seems like buying better weapons for your units is already in :eek:!! Good work Kael! :goodjob: :D
 
Chalid - I agree but there is a slight difference.

Currently, its either your civ has Macemen or not.

Having a Mace bearing warrior could be similar to a Maceman, only you couldn't produce any others.

I dont think this is necessary for the game, but it could be an interesting take.
 
When it is standard equipment why bother? Simply promote an Axeman on combat I and imagine this represents a two sided axe.

I do not have anything against that proposal at all but there has to be a distinct advantage to justify the work it would take.
So what advantage for example would your two sided axe have? +20 % Strenght? (->Combat I promotion) +1 Raw power? (Stronger unit why not use macemen instead) and so forth. And why would you not equip every unit with that two sided axe if it is better? An when you would equip every unit why not include it in the basic unit?

Just a sidenote: We already have an system that deals out promotions to units that are a kind of equipment: The Heavy and Light promotions for the lurchip Golems. We do not want to reuse that mechanism for all civs as it would rob the lurchip partly of their flavour.
 
Yeah we considered being very granular with equipment early on. If you had access to the Deer resource you could build a leatherworker that produced Leather. With access to Cotton you could build a Tailor that produced Cloth. With access to Cloth and Leather an armorer could build Leather Vests.

Leather vests would be equiped to all of your units (or bought, or allowed upgraded units). Similiar processes were designed for different sorts of weapons and armor.

In the end it is a really fun system to design but not that fun to play as it causes a lot of micromangement for casual players (though I will admit there is a segment of the players that would love it and if someone did a mod like this it would probably attack a decent group of loyal fans).

So for FfH we decided to keep to a small group of unique artifacts. Any more and its overloaded. I wrote a little about it in the 'Why are you here' letter to the design team when we started phase 2 (the more is worse section).

edit: dang, and I was getting so good at beating Chalid to posts lately. :) Oh and good point about the Luchuirp, that is a better place to work in mechanics like this.
 
Chalid said:
Hmm that reminds me of.. hmmm ... oh yes. How about equipping that Warrior with an Axe. Oh now he is an Axeman. And hmm lets give him that new cool weapon there how is it called? Exactly Mace. Lets call him an Maceman now.

It seems like buying better weapons for your units is already in :eek:!! Good work Kael! :goodjob: :D

Heh, I was refering specificaly to the magic items idea. Instead of having them come from a wonder or barb you can discover a tech, then spend 2k gold to have the item place on an existing unit of your chosing.
 
Amulet of Lifesaving

If worn by the attacker, 100% retreat chance.
If worn by the defender, force the attacker to retreat if the defender is about to die. Make the defender invincible until the beginning of the defender's next turn.

The amulet is destroyed after being activated.
 
Hmmm....Unique.

Ok. How about a special one on the map resource...warpstone, meteorite...etc...

Claiming this resource would be the only way to produce a legendary weapon,
the dragon lance, only usable by a cavalry unit, and the production would destroy the resource.

The weapon itself would give +%, against dragons, but also have a command ability over dragons, There might be a 33% chance a dragon defeated with the lance actually doesn't die, and instead agrees to bow before the slayer, and the unit is upgraded to the one and only in game dragon knight. With the exception of the egg idea idea I put in the quests thread, but that's another mechanic.
 
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