[MOD] MagisterModmod

[zldrago1000]

Did the Wonder spell get changed? I recently have been getting Sacrifice out of it a lot. The Fire elemental are cool though. Not sure if its worth a whole archmage or what have you.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Did the Wonder spell get changed? I recently have been getting Sacrifice out of it a lot. The Fire elemental are cool though. Not sure if its worth a whole archmage or what have you.

Yes. As I mentioned earlier, I completely rewrote both Wonder and Read from the Infernal Grimoire spells. The old code was a mess. It would have been almost impossible for the help strings to give you any clue what the outcome might be, and there were still some cases where the results of the spell could cause python errors. I believe those risks have been eliminated.

Sacrificing the unit was always a possible outcome of the spell, even in Kael's original version. Before my recent rewrite though, the unit's level and promotions had a stronger influence on how positive or negative the results would be. Sacrificing the unit would be very common with a low level caster, and very uncommon with a highly promoted archmage.

Wonder used to sacrifice via the Demon's Altar Sacrifice spell, but to prevent a possible bug I made that spell's code only run in cities. I added the Pyre of the Seraphic Sacrifice spell as another possibility, so the spell would still be risky.

 

[Cutlass]

In the trophy case a couple of the trophy's don't work. I kill the dragon or Basium and I don't get the trophies for that. Any reason why?

 

[zldrago1000]

Another thing I want to comment on, the improvements to the world builder have really helped with dealing with the endless AI turns. With that skip turn function for units it makes the late game turns actually possible without digging through which unit is causing the issue. Could we get it so that we can kill all of the same units for a civilization too? For example, say I wanted to kill off all the horsemen for Hyborem, would it be possible to have a button next to skip turn or kill to say kill all of that unit?

 

[MagisterCultuum]

When I was making a PyHelp function for the Treetop Defense spell, I realized that worldbuilder did not yet have a way to see or modify how long a unit had been fortified on a tile. It was almost trivially easy for me to add that functionality, so I did.

In the trophy case a couple of the trophy's don't work. I kill the dragon or Basium and I don't get the trophies for that. Any reason why?

I'll look into it and see if it can be fixed for the next release.

Another thing I want to comment on, the improvements to the world builder have really helped with dealing with the endless AI turns. With that skip turn function for units it makes the late game turns actually possible without digging through which unit is causing the issue. Could we get it so that we can kill all of the same units for a civilization too? For example, say I wanted to kill off all the horsemen for Hyborem, would it be possible to have a button next to skip turn or kill to say kill all of that unit?

I think adding such a button to the table would cause problems, but I can add them above the table near the skip/kill all units buttons.

(I can't make it work with the code for the new buttons placed within the interfaceScreen function like those other buttons codes are, as the selected unit is not chosen yet there. I can still display them in that area though if I make the buttons part of the placeUnitMap function. The buttons would then not appear if the lit is empty. I wonder if the other buttons ought to be moved there too.)


I figured that if I'm doing so for unit types, I might as well do so for unit combats and unit domains too.

I went ahead and wrote the code and finally got it so that it seems to work properly, although more testing is in order before a release.

I might also try for unit AI types, units on the same plot, and units or cities in the same area, but I need to get some sleep first.

How does this format look to you?

 

[Calavente]

Question:
what are the means to remove "diseased" on Eilodon built from Diseased Corpse?
I understand that disease cannot be removed from "undead" so that we canot remove it from Diseased Corpse.. but what about Demon Eilodon ?

Further: would it be possible (or doable or whatever) to have Pyre Zombies allowed to upgrade to Eilodon ? Or do you think the balance AND/OR the Lore would not allow it ?

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Question:
what are the means to remove "diseased" on Eilodon built from Diseased Corpse?
I understand that disease cannot be removed from "undead" so that we canot remove it from Diseased Corpse.. but what about Demon Eilodon ?

By Eilodon I assume you mean Eidolon (or its plural form Eidola), as what you typed is nonsense.

I don't think there is a way to remove the Diseased promotion from non-living units, short of WorldBuilder.

I'm thinking of removing this upgrade path to prevent this sort of question.

Further: would it be possible (or doable or whatever) to have Pyre Zombies allowed to upgrade to Eilodon ? Or do you think the balance AND/OR the Lore would not allow it ?

I don't see why not. The result would just be an Eidolon with some extra fire resistance, not the ability to explode in combat. That makes a lot more sense than a diseased Eidolon.

 

[zldrago1000]

When I was making a PyHelp function for the Treetop Defense spell, I realized that worldbuilder did not yet have a way to see or modify how long a unit had been fortified on a tile. It was almost trivially easy for me to add that functionality, so I did.




I'll look into it and see if it can be fixed for the next release.



I think adding such a button to the table would cause problems, but I can add them above the table near the skip/kill all units buttons.

(I can't make it work with the code for the new buttons placed within the interfaceScreen function like those other buttons codes are, as the selected unit is not chosen yet there. I can still display them in that area though if I make the buttons part of the placeUnitMap function. The buttons would then not appear if the lit is empty. I wonder if the other buttons ought to be moved there too.)


I figured that if I'm doing so for unit types, I might as well do so for unit combats and unit domains too.

I went ahead and wrote the code and finally got it so that it seems to work properly, although more testing is in order before a release.

I might also try for unit AI types, units on the same plot, and units or cities in the same area, but I need to get some sleep first.

How does this format look to you?

That looks great. I have no complaints about it.

 

[Cutlass]

Thinking about the trophy case thing, it only seems to be units which can be resurrected, like those I mentioned and the demon lords. When I killed the horsemen those appeared in the trophies.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

The <PythonPostCombatLost> tags for Basium and Acheron had been deleted. I think I might vaguely recall there being some good reason for doing that, but I have no idea what it is so I'll try adding them back and seeing if it throws anything off.

I don't think there ever were trophies for demon lords other than Hyborem.

Trophies aren't something I particularly care about, so I haven't added new ones for things not in the main mod.

 

[Cutlass]

I don't care about them that much. I was just looking at them to see if there was something different to go after to change up the game a bit. But I don't have much time to play recently, so haven't done a lot with it.

 

[Calavente]

By Eilodon I assume you mean Eidolon (or its plural form Eidola), as what you typed is nonsense.

I don't think there is a way to remove the Diseased promotion from non-living units, short of WorldBuilder.

I'm thinking of removing this upgrade path to prevent this sort of question.


I don't see why not. The result would just be an Eidolon with some extra fire resistance, not the ability to explode in combat. That makes a lot more sense than a diseased Eidolon.

-yep, it was Eidolon....
-second: if seems normal that the tierIII religious combat unit of AV is able to upgrade to the tier IV.... (all other religion can do this upgrade).
-third: for Pyre Zombies... the main interest is to be able to do something with those highly promoted Champions... as the Sheaim have no immortal/phalanx the Pyre Zombies have no upgrade path... Having them able to go the Eidolon path would be nice. (all other champions can normaly upgrade to phalanx/immortal/knight/Paladin/Eidolon....

thanks for all.

 

[Artiss]

By Eilodon I assume you mean Eidolon (or its plural form Eidola), as what you typed is nonsense.

I don't think there is a way to remove the Diseased promotion from non-living units, short of WorldBuilder.

I'm thinking of removing this upgrade path to prevent this sort of question.


I don't see why not. The result would just be an Eidolon with some extra fire resistance, not the ability to explode in combat. That makes a lot more sense than a diseased Eidolon.

As I remember, Pyre zombies have "undead" race as well as Diseased corpses, on other side Eidolons are "demons" by promotion. So I think there is logical disapproval of upgrading possibility between them. Besides "demon" race already has fire resistance... of even immunity, don't remember right.
p.s.: imho, Sheaim are overpowered without that upgradings.

 

[Sezneg]

As I remember, Pyre zombies have "undead" race as well as Diseased corpses, on other side Eidolons are "demons" by promotion. So I think there is logical disapproval of upgrading possibility between them. Besides "demon" race already has fire resistance... of even immunity, don't remember right.
p.s.: imho, Sheaim are overpowered without that upgradings.

I agree. I don't see why Sheaim need an upgrade path for their melee units.

About to end an EPIC Illians game.

My favorite economy type is definitely the camp specialist - 2x free specialist per camp with the Hunting lodge + Grove, combined with a specialist boosting civic.

I had a crap starting position, a tight area with poor terrain... but I managed to get 5 camps in my starting fat cross. I had to fight the Clan and Doviello tooth and nail, and it took me 200 turns to march from my little corner area to the sea, capturing every city along the way in preparation for my ascension. Now my main rival is a sprawling Khazad/Mercurian empire, with a few other civs fighting over the third region. I plan to use Ulric against the third region, since I should be able to destroy them from on top of peaks, while simultaneously launching a seaborn invasion of the Khazad. It should only take a few cities to crush their ability to resist me.

 

[Calavente]

why ?
because in the game I'm playing, I have a dozen Pyre zombies I don't know what to do with...
even with mithril, they are weak.
weaker than Colubra / Eidolon / Manticore / Beastmaster / Knight / Eater-of-Dreams' summons.
so my option for those well promoted Pyre Zombies is only to have them DIE as suicide corpse.
Which is really sad for level 8-12 units... I hate wasting those !

further, what is the issue with the Undead-Demon path ?
Drowns are Undead (or at least were in normal FFH), they upgrade to Stygian Guard.. which are Demons...
And Diseased Corpse (Undead) also upgrade to Eidolon (Demon).. but you then have diseased Eidolon that can't be healed...
and as you said, Sheaim are already strong... It's not having 4 Pyre Zombies upgrading to Eidolon that will change much... I'll remind you that they can already have Eidolon... by building directly, by upgrading from AV priest...and Diseased Corpse.

and I'll remind you that your well promoted axemen can only get promoted to chariots ... which sucks.

I'll further remind you that Chaos marauder suck at the time you get them ... (you can often already build much stronger pyre zombies/Diseased Corpse) Reveler are a mixed batch... you can get ranger quicker... but at least they have no penalty vs cities.... but honestly that isn't much.
Tar demons are nice as you can get them early... but they don't count as guard in your cities.. so you need to double that with another unit.

Moebius witches, manticore Succubus and Colubra are the only one really worth something... and of those, succubus only interest it the flight promotion.. (and they have a niche power spike before you get tier IV units... and it helps to protect your coast without ships. But, at least in my game, before I got them in number high enough I already had tierIV units which render succubus obsolet... I hadn't the possibility/option to use revelers/succubus as main forces in a war... .)

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Is anyone particularly attached to the current Mercenary mechanic, where the spell triggers an event which lets you choose what units to recruit?

I originally switched to that method mostly because events allowed much more useful mouseovers than spells, so I could show the unique units that could be recruited in cities of other cultures, but the new PyHelp tag changed that.

I have recently been trying to make a PyHelp function which would tell you what units would be available from the event and at what price, but I really cannot seem to figure out how the prices of events are calculated. I don't think I'll be able to make the spell mouseover quote the event prices accurately, and being quoted a price less than half of the actual cost may be worse than useless.

(I did in the process through figure out how spells were scaling prices based on game speed, and decided to use the same formula for prices set in python.)


I think it would be simpler to go back to the method I used a long time ago, where each different type of mercenary is hied by a separate spell/ability.

The PyHelp tags could now show the details of the exact units to be recruited and any special promotions they would get.

You'd never risk wasting a unit's spellcasting ability when you cannot actually afford to hire a mercenary.

I think it could also prevent a rare bug caused by using the investigate city option in the event when you don't have a city.

I might go back to having "Mercenary Recruiter" promotion which Magnadine gains from combat and which other units can get once their team owns the Guild of the Nine. That would be easier than creating a duplicate version of each ability for Magnadine.


I believe that actually removing the events or event trigger would break saved games, but I could leave them in place without actually using them. That might be best anyway due to the scenario that relies on triggering the same event.

 

[Sezneg]

why ?
because in the game I'm playing, I have a dozen Pyre zombies I don't know what to do with...

You don't know what to do with an outdated unit that's easily replaced and blows up causing collateral when it dies?

 

[Calavente]

You don't know what to do with an outdated unit that's easily replaced and blows up causing collateral when it dies?

exactly.
they suck.
I do more damage using 2 Air2 followed by 2 RoF (which is useable by mvt 3 units: mobility +haste... while PZ are at max 2mvt)

then, using any other units to swipe the city.

and I don't want to suicide 45+xp units

and I don't like to give xp to those weak units.
(maybe using them to weaked Acheron will be usefull... but that's if the fire damage works. otherwise, chaos maraudeur of comparable str, do nothing against his 22str)

 

[Sezneg]

exactly.
they suck.
I do more damage using 2 Air2 followed by 2 RoF (which is useable by mvt 3 units: mobility +haste... while PZ are at max 2mvt)

then, using any other units to swipe the city.

and I don't want to suicide 45+xp units

and I don't like to give xp to those weak units.
(maybe using them to weaked Acheron will be usefull... but that's if the fire damage works. otherwise, chaos maraudeur of comparable str, do nothing against his 22str)

Sheaim don't play like normal civs. You shouldn't become attached to sacrificial zombie bombs, no matter their exp count. The free Gate units more than make up for not having an end game upgrade for a very low tier early unit.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

No comments on the proposed Mercenary changes yet?


I am leaning towards moving it towards the purely spell-based mechanism.

Actually I have already implemented it that way, and would have to change it back if no one likes the idea.


The abilities which actually hire the various mercenary units require the Mercenary Recruiter promotion.

(Note that adding the mercenary recruiter promotion does break saved games.)

Magnadine starts with that promotion and can regain it from combat.

The event which formerly granted a mercenary champion instead gives the unit this new promotion.

The normal way to get the promotion is to use another ability only available to members of the team which owns the Guild of the Nine.



I also added a few more unit types, including Triremes and Frigates. Naval mercenaries would only be available in coastal cities.

The mercenaries start with the race and civ trait that they would have if trained by the player who has the dominant culture in that city. (Lanun ships are Seafaring, Ljosalfar archers are even and dexterous, etc.)

I currently have it so that the player whose culture is dominant will also get a cut of the price of hiring the mercenary, unless that player is the caster's owner. The cut is currently set at 10%, or 50% if the cultural player is Hippus.

Mercenaries hired by the Hippus never get the mercenary promotion, and so don't cost extra funds or have a chance of turning barbarian. Magnadine inspires such confidence in the mercenaries he recruits that they start with have Valor and Morale instead of the Mercenary promotion, even if this hero was captured and serving a non-Hippus player.




I'm considering a more radical chance to the mercenary mechanic now though.

Instead of limiting the ability to become a Mercenary Recruiter to the team who owns the Guild of the Nine, I'm thinking the wonder should allow it for almost everyone.

The spell would also require the Currency technology, and might requiring having contact with the wonder's owner and not being at war with that player.

The Guild's owner would receive a sizable fraction of the money paid to hire mercenaries, making it a major revenue generator. This might be instead of or in addition to the cut that goes to the units' cultural owners.


I'm also thinking of changing Magnadine's special connection to mercenaries. Instead of having a special ability to gain the Mercenary Recruiter promotion without relying on the Guild, I might give him a unique "Mesmerize Mercenary" ability. This would convert hostile mercenaries to his side, while removing the mercenary promotion so they remain loyal to his owner permanently rather than turning barbarian if not paid. This ability would also let him gain control of any disgruntled mercenaries who turned barbarian when other players could not pay their contracts.



What do you players think of that idea?