make air power in civ4 more like reality!!

[ulsterman88]

I think that airpower in civ4 needs to vastly improve 2 make it more like reality, here are my suggestions;

1) Airfields: built by workers, can base all air units and can airlift etc....

2) Air promotion tree: seperate to land units, has promotions such as interceptor (+25% vs. bombers) and torpedo bomber (+25% cahance of sinking ship.

3) New units such as FLak (after assembly line) and fighter bomber

4) air units can sink all naval units and get huge bonus when air striking armour (approx. 50%)

5) radar small wonder after discovering radio. Means increased chance of intercepting enemy. aircraft

Im new so if u think these ideas are rubbish take it easy on me!!

 

[Veteranewbie]

One thing I think they should change is that you can't build (or place, but this may causer serious frustration) planes in a city without airport

 

[Harada the Grea]

how about airstrike ability if uniut in planes range is attacked by enemy

 

[SilentDemon]

Aircraft should indeed have a chance to destroy ships and armored vehicles, it only makes sense.

 

[Raisin Bran]

I say that airplanes are ok ! ...... but they should be able to sink ships at sea ......... in WW2 planes did most of the ship killing job, they were the worst enemy of the germans U-boats.

And the promotions should be seperate for airplanes.

ulsterman88 ---- Welcome to Civilization Fanatics!

 

[MoonBase]

no. A unit in the game represents a legion/division/regiment and i have never heard of one of those destroyed entirely by bombardment. By the time the unit is too 25% strenght, its men are so scatered that it is almost impossible to hit them with bombs.

The only aspect I disagree with you on is sea units. Airpower at sea has always been a killer, while at land it's always simply been about attrition.

Okay, in theaters like the Gulf War the attrition was pretty dang overwhelming, but still...

 

[ranger999]

Airpower should definitely be able to sink ships. THis would give you an incentive not to just build battleships and go around bombarding enemy coastal cities without carrier escorts (or at least destroyers, which should suck compared to CAP flying off a carrier). For balance reasons, airpower doesn't need to be any stronger attacking armor. (After all, why doesn't a machine gun get a bonus against cavalry? The MG single-handedly ended the use of cavalry for mass offensives.)

For some of you younger people who still think airpower can always destroy land units, you might do well to remember the Iraqi battalion commander who recounted in an interview that he lost 7 tanks in several weeks of intense aerial bombardment in the 1991 gulf war, and the remaining 30+ tanks in a few hours after they were attacking by Allied forces on the ground (because Allied fire control & range was superior).

 

[SilentDemon]

Airpower should definitely be able to sink ships. THis would give you an incentive not to just build battleships and go around bombarding enemy coastal cities without carrier escorts (or at least destroyers, which should suck compared to CAP flying off a carrier). For balance reasons, airpower doesn't need to be any stronger attacking armor. (After all, why doesn't a machine gun get a bonus against cavalry? The MG single-handedly ended the use of cavalry for mass offensives.)

For some of you younger people who still think airpower can always destroy land units, you might do well to remember the Iraqi battalion commander who recounted in an interview that he lost 7 tanks in several weeks of intense aerial bombardment in the 1991 gulf war, and the remaining 30+ tanks in a few hours after they were attacking by Allied forces on the ground (because Allied fire control & range was superior).

That's exactly it, airpower *can* destroy armored divisions in real warfare. However this does not mean they commonly *will.* Which is why I think they should have a small kill check on them.

 

[Crighton]

I wouldn't mind seeing more naval units (for variety if nothing else), the naval aspect is pretty low in CIV so just having a couple extra ships, e.g. an Aegis cruiser for anti-air wouldn't be a bad addition, especially if playing inland sea map and chuckles is directly accross from you (damn you alex).

I think that Air vs Sea there should be a decent chance at a kill.

Air vs Land, engh I flip flop back and forth on this one.

Radar would be a good advancement, maybe discover it and get +1 visibility from ships and planes, and +2 for cities. Just a thought, wouldn't be too hard to do. For experienced modders.

 

[ulsterman88]

Radar would be a good advancement, maybe discover it and get +1 visibility from ships and planes, and +2 for cities. Just a thought, wouldn't be too hard to do. For experienced modders.[/QUOTE]

like this suggestion what about a bonus for fighters when on air superiority. i.e. increased chance of interception, about 10- 20% more?

 

[Nexushyper]

no. A unit in the game represents a legion/division/regiment and i have never heard of one of those destroyed entirely by bombardment. By the time the unit is too 25% strenght, its men are so scatered that it is almost impossible to hit them with bombs.

Really? Never heard of one of those destroyed entirely by bombardment. Guess you never heard of Pearl Harbor. Guess you never heard of WWII Pacific Theater in which the U.S. air planes nearly destroyed EVERY Japanese ship. (They did sink, in a battle that I forget the name of, every Japanese Carrier, that if I remember correctly was 4 carriers that teh Japanese brought to that battle.)

Point is, Air power can and has sunk large portions of fleets. And can (and in Civ 4 should have) a small chance and destroying all ground units. (Small chance)

 

[ulsterman88]

If air units do gain the abilty to sink ships outright and gain a bonus against armour in an expansion or future civ. it could balanced by an increased chance of interception. Would it be possible to increase the interception chance up to 50-60% withput unbalancing air power

lastly this would incresse combined arms wars in the game as players/Ai realise they need sufficient air force to fight effectively

 

[Crighton]

the opportunity to shoot the planes down needs upgrading too don't forget

 

[Nexushyper]

I would think some of this can be done via python/xml in a mod. However, making planes sink ships, may be hardcoded, gotta look into that.

 

[MoonBase]

Here's a thought:


As it currently stands, there's no way to mod airpower so that it can kill sea units, but can't kill land units.

But what if the same essential effect was done via inherent bonuses?

That is, give fighters(not bombers) the ability to kill units, lower their bombardment strength, then give them a bonus against sea units (say +50%) and a handicap against land units (say -50%). That way, fighters would be effective at killing naval forces, but fairly piss-poor at really taking out land units.


Bombers you leave as-is(although I've always been in favor of upping the damage cap for their strikes. 50% just seems a tiny bit too little), as they are area-effect weapons and aren't hitting anything, be it land or sea units, very "directly".

It's not a perfect solution, and I've no doubt we could all debate the effectiveness of bomber-style planes at sinking warships in reality for days and days, but it would provide a usefullness to fighters and especially carrier-based fighters beyond interception and worse-than-bombers bombarding and striking.

Sight an enemy invasion fleet off your coast, while your navy is away? Send out your bombers to soften them up and use up their destroyer cover, then send out the fighters to finish them off. Carrier battles at sea would be as fun as battleship fights are now.

Teaching the AI to use fighters thusly wouldn't seem to be too much of a trick, as it's not all that different than how they are used by the AI now.

Any critiques? (aside from the "I don't wanna mod" one that popped right into my head?)

 

[gmanne]

Some excellent ideas here. I would also like to see a new set of fighter missions : Air Superiority/SAMSupression. At present, if we want our bombers to get through, we have to send in fighters and 'hope' they get attacked by ground and air defense units. Combine this the new land improvements 'flak cannon' and 'radar station' and 'strategery' will return to air power.
Also: Fighters MUST be able to destroy ships, it will change the whole dynamic of naval and air warfare - this is a good thing.
Finally : Simple upgrades for Air units. Create a new building called 'Airbase' and allow one upgrade upon creation. 'Interceptor + 25% v air units', 'fighter-bomber' + 25% v ground units, 'torpedo bomber' +25% v ships.

 

[Raisin Bran]

Why not make a all new UU for japan .... the kamikaze ...... a airplane that can only attack ships and dies afterwords ..... +100% against intercept does 90% damage and dies instantly after. cost a little bit less to build (50% less)

 

[Arcades057]

Someone posted that whole divisions were not destroyed by bombers IRL... I remind you that the engagements here actually represent a number of years, and if the USAF had been given an entire year to bombard a division of Panzers crossing the N African desert I'm quite certain they would've wiped out the ground forces.

And air forces usually flew more than one sorty a year, unlike in the game!

 

[GrandMatt]

no. After all, do you need a factory to build tanks? maybe airports should just cut production time by 25-50%.[

Err Planes are built in factories too! They only take off/ land at airports and are stored in hangars at the air ports.

Hence Airports should have to be built before you can conduct Air missions from that city!

 

[kernok]

I think that airpower in civ4 needs to vastly improve 2 make it more like reality, here are my suggestions;

1) Airfields: built by workers, can base all air units and can airlift etc....

2) Air promotion tree: seperate to land units, has promotions such as interceptor (+25% vs. bombers) and torpedo bomber (+25% cahance of sinking ship.

3) New units such as FLak (after assembly line) and fighter bomber

4) air units can sink all naval units and get huge bonus when air striking armour (approx. 50%)

5) radar small wonder after discovering radio. Means increased chance of intercepting enemy. aircraft

Im new so if u think these ideas are rubbish take it easy on me!!

1= yes why not!
2= yeah definitly!!!!
3= hummm mouais...
4= no! air power is already very powerfull in naval warfare!
5= yeah definitly!!!!