making my own map
- Thread starter rponton
- Start date
Your Civ2 installation should have created two programs in your program folder: Civ2 and Civ2Map, the Map Editor. From a blank map, you can create a random map of whatever size you want, or you can draw on the blank screen whatever you like. When you put a land tile over a Whale or Fish, it becomes the corresponding "special" land tile of the same type (Plains over fish becomes Buffalo). Give it a try.
funxus
Orange Cycloptic Blob
The more trade the better. Also a lot of food is good. Generally, wines and silk are good, and silks are later easily turned into wheat for food. Also rivers are good. You have to see what some of the odd specials give in trade, like gold e.g.
TimTheEnchanter
I...am...an Enchanter!
If your just playing around with the map to maximize the science from an SSC, In addition to the specials, it should have 21 river squares and there must be a nearby, rapidly growing, high trade AI city that you can develop a road and eventually rail connection to (or a station city to do the same. The key to pushing your SSC is to get three outstanding trade routes - you will get more than half your trade from the routes. You want to maximize internal trade (hence the rivers) and the trade of the AI city to maximize the value of the routes. The most I've seen is +45/trade route, but there was room for improvement. (only 1 trade special (silk), size was only about 29, "only" 12 rivers, trading partner was only size 12 and had I think it only had 1 trade special as well.)
As for the specials, you ideally would want enough food to put you up to 16 einsteins, but after that, extra people are wasted. I assume you will make the non-special sqares into grassland and eventually turn it into farmland. The most trade you can get is with 4 gold mountains as gold is the only special with 6 arrows, but these have no food (and can't be irrigated) so you can only max your city out at 34 citizens, leaving you two einsteins short of optimal. You could make two of the specials into wine and irrigate them giving you enough food for 36 citizens. But this will decrease your trade. With superhighways your gold will produce 13 arrows (6+river+road+colossus=9 *1.5 =13 when rounded down) The most your wine will produce is 4+river+road+colossus =7 *1.5 = 10 when rounded down). At 100% science, one einstein equals the same as 3 arrows so this seems to be a wash, but the base trade also factors into the calculation of the trade routes, so the 4 gold mountains should actually produce more science than 2 gold, 2 wine and the extra two einsteins.
So your optimal science set up would be: all 21 squares rivered and roaded, 4 gold, 17 grassland/farmland with trade routes on a road/rail connection to a similar AI city (4 gold, all squares river and road, at least 20 citizens to utilize all 20 trade squares). This assumes all necessary improvements and wonders in the SSC (including colossus before flight and research lab) and the trading partner (e.g., superhighways)
I don't think those conditions will ever occur in a random map, but I think that's the theoretical maximum.
Now that I think about it, has anyone ever gotten a 5 special city by sizing the map such that the special pattern overlaps at the meridian? The way the pattern works, I don't know if that's possible or not. I don't think it is but maybe it's something else to play with...
As for the specials, you ideally would want enough food to put you up to 16 einsteins, but after that, extra people are wasted. I assume you will make the non-special sqares into grassland and eventually turn it into farmland. The most trade you can get is with 4 gold mountains as gold is the only special with 6 arrows, but these have no food (and can't be irrigated) so you can only max your city out at 34 citizens, leaving you two einsteins short of optimal. You could make two of the specials into wine and irrigate them giving you enough food for 36 citizens. But this will decrease your trade. With superhighways your gold will produce 13 arrows (6+river+road+colossus=9 *1.5 =13 when rounded down) The most your wine will produce is 4+river+road+colossus =7 *1.5 = 10 when rounded down). At 100% science, one einstein equals the same as 3 arrows so this seems to be a wash, but the base trade also factors into the calculation of the trade routes, so the 4 gold mountains should actually produce more science than 2 gold, 2 wine and the extra two einsteins.
So your optimal science set up would be: all 21 squares rivered and roaded, 4 gold, 17 grassland/farmland with trade routes on a road/rail connection to a similar AI city (4 gold, all squares river and road, at least 20 citizens to utilize all 20 trade squares). This assumes all necessary improvements and wonders in the SSC (including colossus before flight and research lab) and the trading partner (e.g., superhighways)
I don't think those conditions will ever occur in a random map, but I think that's the theoretical maximum.
Now that I think about it, has anyone ever gotten a 5 special city by sizing the map such that the special pattern overlaps at the meridian? The way the pattern works, I don't know if that's possible or not. I don't think it is but maybe it's something else to play with...
TimTheEnchanter
I...am...an Enchanter!
Like I said, I don't think this would appear in a random map, but with the map editor, you can definitely do this.
As for the roads, they add trade to the flat terrain, OR any terrain that already produces trade (trade specials and rivers). This is why it is so nice to have lots of rivers in OCC games - you can use settlers/engineers to "move" your sheild producing squares to the rivers so they still produce trade and get the road (and superhighway) bonuses. You can have high sheild production and still get trade from every square.
So I built a map, centered one city site on 4 specials oil,wine,wheat, and buffalo. Saved the map and started the game. Poof!!! all of the specials were gone, annd they were replaced with the non special tiles desert, hills, plains, and plains. What the heck happened??
Also, I just enabled cheat mode to reveal the map, and it happened everywhere. The only specials left are the fish and whales that are there to begin with. The huts are all intact, but no specials!
Also, I just enabled cheat mode to reveal the map, and it happened everywhere. The only specials left are the fish and whales that are there to begin with. The huts are all intact, but no specials!
You must change the resource seed in the Map Editor (press "s", or some menu option).
The value is 1 by default, and that means a random seed. So if you didn't change the seed, the pattern in Civ2 will be completely different from the one you saw in the map editor.
Pick another seed first. There are 64 different patterns (2-65)...
If you set the resource seed to 65, the pattern will be the same as you saw initially in the map editor (the default value 1), but this time it won't be randomized in Civ2.
The value is 1 by default, and that means a random seed. So if you didn't change the seed, the pattern in Civ2 will be completely different from the one you saw in the map editor.
Pick another seed first. There are 64 different patterns (2-65)...
If you set the resource seed to 65, the pattern will be the same as you saw initially in the map editor (the default value 1), but this time it won't be randomized in Civ2.
Next problem. When I built the map, I put all 7 of the civ's where I wanted them to start. When I started the game, It asked me if I wanted to randomize the starting locations, I said no. it put my (japaneese) settler where I had it on the map, but the other ones were everywhere but where I placed them. It didn't even use the civ's I selected (persians instead of americans, mongols in place of indians, etc.) what now?!
TimTheEnchanter
I...am...an Enchanter!
When starting the game you need to select the "customize rules" option which will let you select "choose opponents" or something like that. Then you can tell it to use the ones that you created starting positions for.
Those starting positions only indicate where that particular civ would start, if it is actually in the game. If you want to be sure all civs start where you want, you should place starting positions for all civilizations. Or, as Tim said, make sure you select the right ones.
Oh, and if you want several civs (of the same color) to start at the exact same spot, you can use MapEdit to do that (see my homepage/sig).
Oh, and if you want several civs (of the same color) to start at the exact same spot, you can use MapEdit to do that (see my homepage/sig).
I got it working. I put all same color civs as close as possible to each other. Since the computer only uses one of each color, I get my desired spacing.
When putting a map together, if you put two sqares directly on top of each other (Diamond points touching) are they considered the same continent? I know you can pass ships through these little waterways, but they are right next to each other, so... I'd like to know for trade and wonder effectivness.
When putting a map together, if you put two sqares directly on top of each other (Diamond points touching) are they considered the same continent? I know you can pass ships through these little waterways, but they are right next to each other, so... I'd like to know for trade and wonder effectivness.
If you can move a lnad unit between them (not using the poles) then they are generally considered the same continent. The sure test is as ElephantU said, check the coordinates and continent number.
TimTheEnchanter
I...am...an Enchanter!
Generally, if you draw land that is touching at the "points" it treats it as one continent.
Also, despite what the books say, there are no wonders that affect only a continent. The ones that say this in the book actually apply to your entire civ.
As to the question of max trade from a single city....
I couldn't help myself wondering about the max science from a single city, so I rigged up a map with 2 cities with all rivers, and 4 gold specials. Again, I emphasise, this terrain will not occur in a natural, system generated map.
I played it as basic OCC, for quite a while. Once my own land was fully improved, I went over and improved the AI city as well. I basically stopped researching when I hit computers to avoid getting flight. Eventually the AI built Superhighways and a sewer but every time they were going to grow, they built more engineers. Eventually they started growing again. Through "non-cheat-mode" play I was able to get the AI up to size 18 before they discovered flight cancelling my colossus. (I did do a few restarts along the way, but it was otherwise cheat free) This gave me 3 +85 trade routes, for 417 total trade arrows and 14 einstens. This gave a total of 3672 beakers.
Finally, I put it into cheat mode to max out the trade of the AI city by adding citizens until it worked all the squares, this bumped the trade routes up to +87 for 423 arrows and 3720 beakers.
(Sorry about the image quality. I think once the arrows reached all the way through the food box, it resized the main city screen image to be smaller within the window so the arrows could extend off the edge, hence all the extra black space.)
I'm pretty sure this is the max science you could possibly get from a single city.
Also, despite what the books say, there are no wonders that affect only a continent. The ones that say this in the book actually apply to your entire civ.
As to the question of max trade from a single city....
I couldn't help myself wondering about the max science from a single city, so I rigged up a map with 2 cities with all rivers, and 4 gold specials. Again, I emphasise, this terrain will not occur in a natural, system generated map.
I played it as basic OCC, for quite a while. Once my own land was fully improved, I went over and improved the AI city as well. I basically stopped researching when I hit computers to avoid getting flight. Eventually the AI built Superhighways and a sewer but every time they were going to grow, they built more engineers. Eventually they started growing again. Through "non-cheat-mode" play I was able to get the AI up to size 18 before they discovered flight cancelling my colossus. (I did do a few restarts along the way, but it was otherwise cheat free) This gave me 3 +85 trade routes, for 417 total trade arrows and 14 einstens. This gave a total of 3672 beakers.
Finally, I put it into cheat mode to max out the trade of the AI city by adding citizens until it worked all the squares, this bumped the trade routes up to +87 for 423 arrows and 3720 beakers.
(Sorry about the image quality. I think once the arrows reached all the way through the food box, it resized the main city screen image to be smaller within the window so the arrows could extend off the edge, hence all the extra black space.)
I'm pretty sure this is the max science you could possibly get from a single city.
funxus
Orange Cycloptic Blob
Did Delhi have 4 golds and rivered grasslands as well? Otherwise, there's room for more.
Those 85t routes sure look nice though.
Those 85t routes sure look nice though.
TimTheEnchanter
I...am...an Enchanter!
Originally posted by funxus
Did Delhi have 4 golds and rivered grasslands as well? Otherwise, there's room for more.
Those 85t routes sure look nice though.
Yep, I maxed out both. Here's the map near the end
And their city wasn't doing too shabby either...
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