Making the best of a jungle start

[makattack]

My favorite civ is the Aztecs, who often spawn in a deep jungle. On emperor difficulty I often find myself struggling due to lack of production. Do you have any tips for surviving the early game deep in the jungle? How many cities should I get on standard and huge maps, and how quickly? Recommended techs and build orders etc for somehow getting some production out of a huge jungle?
Thanks so much for your tips!

 

[joncnunn]

For deep jungle cities, mostly you cash rush things after you get trade posts up. But in G&K, you have to wait for Guilds for this.
You may need to chop some of the jungle along rivers when starting there (converts to plains for some production and with a farm more food at the same time)

 

[budweiser]

Its a fine art, different from the rest. Its all about stacking food. I played 2 emperor Monty games this weekend. Very easy. I had every growth bonus in the cap - 65%, size 40 by turn 200 on one, size 20 in the support cities.

You only need a few cities to start and you dont need 4 cities by turn 50 with NC. Just go OCC NC while settling, or taking the lake spots if you think the AI will get to them first OR let them settle it and you kill it with 4 or 5 Jags and a few archers.

Pottery>Writing>The Wheel>Philo for example. Depends on what you start with. Go Tradition and stack all the growth bonus as you can.

Setup up a jungle fortress where you have 3 or 4 sites and turtle. Once they get to size you will have the option to expand with ease. Use jags for scouts and hang around the jungle.

Monty will have many policies sooner because of the culture bonus on kills. He is one of my favorite civs.

Once your food is stacked, it becomes a game of grabbing happiness to keep pace with growth.

 

[Xahz]

You could always disable start bias if it really bothers you, although Jaguars are kinda stacked for jungle.

Anyways, you obviously need bronzeworking which is going to delay your NC and Construction by quite a bit. I would do a two-city rush with Liberty if I got a crappy jungle start as Aztecs. You need more than one worker though, I'd suggest two or maybe three per city, at least in the beginning. It's not too hard to pull off, free worker from Liberty, and you can hard build or buy another one. Then just jack a third from a CS.

Alternatively you can go for pyramids or another early wonder with all the burst production you'll get from chopping down jungle around the river tiles (20 for each tile, converts into 1 hammer plains). Wouldn't bother on Immortal or Deity though. Once you get your second city down and some tiles that aren't ass, you can crank out some Jags and CBs and just take the capital of your nearest neighbor for your 3rd.

Jungles aren't all bad. Once you get your Universities out and get through Rationalism you'll have +3 Science, +2 Gold, +2 Food jungle tiles around your puppets. You just have to survive the early game hell and use the early hammers correctly.

 

[Light Cleric]

One thing to heavily consider is settling on a luxury. It's going to take a very long time to improve your luxuries in a jungle since it takes like 12 turns and you have to go down to Bronze Working, so getting that luxury early can be a big difference. It's also not a bad idea to go Liberty->Citizenship instead of going for Collective Rule early.

 

[BBMorti]

On immortal I go Pyramids and chop down all jungle near rivers and on hills. On diety I find a new game. =P

 

[budweiser]

When I was playing, my calendar resources were in woods. I chopped and farmed whatever woods and left the jungles alone for the most part. Its not like every tile is jungle.

 

[BBMorti]

When I was playing, my calendar resources were in woods. I chopped and farmed whatever woods and left the jungles alone for the most part. Its not like every tile is jungle.

O'rly? haha
I should show you some screens

 

[budweiser]

I didnt get a chance to try this, but I am intersted to know how many jags/archers would be needed to force a worker from a CS. I think this is part of Monty's strategy.

 

[joncnunn]

I didnt get a chance to try this, but I am intersted to know how many jags/archers would be needed to force a worker from a CS. I think this is part of Monty's strategy.

I'd prefer 250 gold; use 240 of it to cash buy the worker and pocket the other 10 gold.
I think you need six or seven units near a city state to bully them.

 

[budweiser]

I'd prefer 250 gold; use 240 of it to cash buy the worker and pocket the other 10 gold.
I think you need six or seven units near a city state to bully them.

Thanks! I'll check it out but a worker is 310.

 

[Old Peter]

I am expert on jungle tiles nowdays.

Before I hated jungle. Always went bronze working, then it took a long long time to chop down the jungle etc. useless!

Nowdays I actually most often skip bronze working and skip to chop it down!

Try to work other tiles and go as fast as you can to unitversities. Bang - these jungle tiles suddenly become your best tiles!

 

[Unresolved]

I am expert on jungle tiles nowdays.

Before I hated jungle. Always went bronze working, then it took a long long time to chop down the jungle etc. useless!

Nowdays I actually most often skip bronze working and skip to chop it down!

Try to work other tiles and go as fast as you can to unitversities. Bang - these jungle tiles suddenly become your best tiles!

What do you do if your capital is surrounded by jungle? It seems like it would be a super low production city.

 

[KGPurrs]

What do you do if your capital is surrounded by jungle? It seems like it would be a super low production city.

Jungle Pantheon, Universities, Trade Posts, Tradition, Commerce, and Rationalism. If they are on a river even better when you get hydro.

Those tiles become 2.8 Food, 1 Hammer, 1 Culture, 4 Gold, 3 Science. Screw production make your capital a gold and science power house and buy whatever you need.

You can settle other cities in high production areas.

 

[BBMorti]

I don't see a capital with little to no production getting far in a diety or MP game. Would love to see a replay that proves me wrong.

Maybe next diety challenge should be in a jungle location

 

[Old Peter]

What do you do if your capital is surrounded by jungle? It seems like it would be a super low production city.

Hard start and you are going to be slow no matter what you do.

What I would do in this case is a quick shrine and take sacred path!

 

[Old Peter]

I am playing a map like this atm.

I love the Aztecs too, they are both easy and hard early .

 

[sufficiency]

Jungle Pantheon, Universities, Trade Posts, Tradition, Commerce, and Rationalism. If they are on a river even better when you get hydro.

Those tiles become 2.8 Food, 1 Hammer, 1 Culture, 4 Gold, 3 Science. Screw production make your capital a gold and science power house and buy whatever you need.

You can settle other cities in high production areas.

This.

Just submit to the fact that your capital won't be making anything useful and you probably won't be making any wonders in the first 150 turns. Get Sacred Path, get universities, pomp your science, and let your other cities build stuff.

 

[budweiser]

Do you have to work the tile for sacred path to give a bonus?

 

[Browd]

Yes, you have to work the tile.