Malakim Tweaks

[Valkrionn]

Posting this as a new thread, as I can see complaints coming in about this.

Now that it is simple to add a range requirement to improvements, I'm moving the Bedouin Improvements to require one tile of free space between themselves. In return, Trader gains +30% from .

This should end up as a nerf early on, but an increase late game when you have trade routes... Which is basically what I want.

Edit: More than willing to discuss these values, as well.

 

[readercolin]

Did you ever fix it so that they can actually build stuff on floodplains? Cause if you didn't, no one will be playing them to test it.

-Colin

 

[Valkrionn]

Thank you for reminding me!

Will look at that today, and figure out what's wrong.

 

[jacktannery]

Alright, playing the Malakim with FF+0.22 and I can report that building on floodplains is back and working well.

The bedouin improvement nerf is fine and fair enough, however I am having some trouble building them around cities, even one square apart, in the capital. Could the capital be counting as a bedouin improvement somehow?

Also, I am not sure that the +30% food for trader is actually working, at least it is not working for me yet.

 

[Valkrionn]

Alright, playing the Malakim with FF+0.22 and I can report that building on floodplains is back and working well.

The bedouin improvement nerf is fine and fair enough, however I am having some trouble building them around cities, even one square apart, in the capital. Could the capital be counting as a bedouin improvement somehow?

Also, I am not sure that the +30% food for trader is actually working, at least it is not working for me yet.

The capital shouldn't be counting... Not sure what's going on there. You still can't build them on Flood Plains, in case that's what the issue is.

As for the food... It really only comes into play when you get some foreign trade routes. 30% of 1 is too small for the game to add... There is no decimal trade. Although there was a mod that introduced that, so it might be worth stealing...

As it is, you need 4 from a route in order to get 1 . Next version I'll up the percentage to 33%, so 3 generates 1 .

 

[Deon]

33,33333333333333333333333333333333333333334%? :d

 

[Valkrionn]

Found the Decimal trade mod... http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=319136

I won't be taking anything but the trade route changes, but expect decimal trade routes in the next version.

 

[admtanaka]

Eh.

To be honest, I think a simpler solution is to make the sits turn deserts into 2 tiles. I understand the reasoning for the trade routes adding food to the city, but from a gameplay standpoint, I think it just adds more complications for ultimately the same (or similar effect).

I think from a synergy standpoint you might also include great prophet points (or even a prophet specialist with a malakim-only building national wonder ala national park).

I propose (these include the one hammer from the desert tile):

Level 1: 1, 1, 1
Level 2: 1, 1, 2 (3 with taxation)
Level 3: 2, 1, 3 (4 with taxation)
Level 4: 2, 1, 4 (5 with taxation), 1 prophet, 1 prophet specialist (with a national wonder, malakim only).

I think it's a simpler solution and still rather thematic. Automating workers also wouldn't immediately confound its efficiency (since the player wouldn't have to micromanage where to build the sits to get the most per city).

 

[Valkrionn]

Eh.

To be honest, I think a simpler solution is to make the sits turn deserts into 2 tiles. I understand the reasoning for the trade routes adding food to the city, but from a gameplay standpoint, I think it just adds more complications for ultimately the same (or similar effect).

I think from a synergy standpoint you might also include great prophet points (or even a prophet specialist with a malakim-only building national wonder ala national park).

I propose (these include the one hammer from the desert tile):

Level 1: 1, 1, 1
Level 2: 1, 1, 2 (3 with taxation)
Level 3: 2, 1, 3 (4 with taxation)
Level 4: 2, 1, 4 (5 with taxation), 1 prophet, 1 prophet specialist (with a national wonder, malakim only).

I think it's a simpler solution and still rather thematic. Automating workers also wouldn't immediately confound its efficiency (since the player wouldn't have to micromanage where to build the sits to get the most per city).

First off... Deserts don't get one hammer for the Malakim in FFPlus, they still receive one Commerce as in FfH.

Secondly, the main reason for the trade routes (And that's something I wanted to do way back when I started Malakim+, at the time I didn't realize the tags already existed as they weren't used anywhere. ) is to make them into Traders. The Bedouin improvements are primarily to provide commerce, with enough food to sustain the tile, and after lots of teching allow some small growth. With this recent change, their cities should be smaller until they develop foreign traderoutes... Which is EXACTLY the feel I want, and something you just can't get by adding food to desert.

 

[lordrune]

Alright, playing the Malakim with FF+0.22 and I can report that building on floodplains is back and working well.

The bedouin improvement nerf is fine and fair enough, however I am having some trouble building them around cities, even one square apart, in the capital. Could the capital be counting as a bedouin improvement somehow?

Also, I am not sure that the +30% food for trader is actually working, at least it is not working for me yet.

I think one of the issues with the improvement nerf is that the code doesn't work entirely obviously.

I had an issue where I used a Bedouin to turn a plain into desert (A riverside tile one to the west of my city). I then started building a sit on it. However, the next turn, the desert riverside evolved into a floodplain. I then went one tile north and turned a blank plain into a desert, planning to build another sit - however, this time the sit option was greyed out. Even though the only other sit was one I had built earlier on the tile one to the east of my city.

I think what happens is that when construction is started, it *marks* the tiles around it, so that its ineligible to begin construction of the same improvement on them.
Unfortunately, if that construction becomes cancelled for any reason and can't be restarted, there's no way to *unmark* the surrounding tiles, so you're basically stufffed.

 

[Valkrionn]

Hmm... That's interesting, actually. I should have known it would work that way too...

To 'un-mark' the tile, build something different (Town or Farm, most likely) on the floodplain.


That said, I'm thinking of re-allowing it for Flood Plains now that you can't cover them... Not as much of an issue I think.

 

[lordrune]

Hmm... That's interesting, actually. I should have known it would work that way too...

To 'un-mark' the tile, build something different (Town or Farm, most likely) on the floodplain.


That said, I'm thinking of re-allowing it for Flood Plains now that you can't cover them... Not as much of an issue I think.

Yeah, I completed a farm over the top, hoping that it would reset.
It didn't work, unfortunately. I still couldn't build a sit on the tile to the north.

The thing seems to be that once construction is started - it seems to mark the *surrounding* tiles as being ineligible for that improvement. And it doesn't unmark those tiles if construction is aborted, or the improvement is replaced.

You might be able to replicate this - if you build a dwarven mountain fort, replace it with a farm - then I suspect you won't be able to build a mountain fort on the tile next to it, even though it should strictly speaking now be eligible.

I think if you make the sits buildable on flood plains now though that will be a fair enough workaround, even though the new mechanic isn't 100% robust.