Mali....

[HamaticBabylon]

I won't buy that game if it doesn't have Babylon.

Babylon is the best, i too may never buy this game!

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

Ok, then it's just the German language, at least in Switzerland it's the old equivalent of 'n i g g e r'! (so it's just a linguistic problem and I excuse myself..

mfG mitsho

Actually, you are confusing the German words 'Maure' and 'Mohr' (both are derived from the same word, but are used differently).
'Maure' ='moor'. Not disrespective at all.
'Mohr' = antiquitas for 'negro'. Like in Othello, the 'Mohr von Venedig'. Not really insulting, more a diminuitive form.

 

[mitsho]

But I have read othello in English and there he is clearly described as Moor which was negative. But ok, it's too confusing probably so I just let it be. (You're probably right)

mitsho

 

[CrazyMrLeo]

I would say that the biggest problem with "Moor" is not its racial connotation but rather its imprecision.

Anyway, Mali was an absolutely great choice for a civ. I'm glad they put it in.

 

[Kosez]

Mansa Munsa was a first African ruler I heard of. Only after him I got familiar with Ethiopia, Benin, Zulus, Zanzibar.
Benin at the peak of its powers was to my knowledge stronger than Ethiopia ever was, but Ethiopia has been around for a long time and its cultural history is very diverse and interesting (like some legends about holy grail being hidden in Ethiopia, Queen of Sheeba being from there instead from Oman,...).
Both are cool.
Do we know yet who will be the leader of Mali?

 

[CrazyMrLeo]

I don't think we've had any official word, but I'm willing to bet it'd be Mansa Musa.

 

[mitsho]

And he will be the crazy-trader type?
hmm mitsho

 

[Evie]

This is the story of pretty much every African empire. You can see the same thing happening to Benin, Kongo - even Ethiopia at its weaker points in history.

For that matter it's not all THAT far from some of what happened mostly everywhere else in the world. I remember the Incans and Aztecs creating their empires in MUCH the same ways, and when you get right down to it, the dynastic disintegrations in China - ESPECIALLY durign the Qin-Han changeover isn't all that far from it.

 

[Xen]

And he will be the crazy-trader type?
hmm mitsho

I wouldnt be at all surprised if that particuelr leader has a focus on economics, and culture

 

[troytheface]

the camel archer is a good idea...if Mali gets this as a UU then its inclusion is a welcome sight. But i say this suspecting that expansion packs will add Carthage and the other lost Civs. I did not mind the Zulu and thought that the UU looked good- also the trimming down of the number of units is a welcome thing indeed.

 

[CoolioVonHoolio]

deleted post... sorry

 

[Greek Stud]

If Greece isnt in, I am not buying the game. Maybe the leaders will be: Pericles and Alexander, or even possibly Agammenon.

Mali is an awesone choice. I want to see Ashanti, Nubia and Ethiopia (Abyssinia).

And then North America only has the Americans??? Maybe Cherokee is in. I was hoping for Apache and Inuit.

I remember there being a big deal that never before seen civs are included. If they were just refering to Mali, than that kinda sucks. Maybe we can use leaderheads from Civ 3 for the Civs we lose in Civ 4. Like Zulu, Carthage, and Babylon...

 

[Communisto]

Mali is an excellent choice. The kingdoms of Mali were the most influential in West Africa and deserve to be in the game. If you do not know of Mali then you do not know much about medieval history outside of Europe.

 

[Cuivienen]

If Greece isnt in, I am not buying the game. Maybe the leaders will be: Pericles and Alexander, or even possibly Agammenon.

Mali is an awesone choice. I want to see Ashanti, Nubia and Ethiopia (Abyssinia).

And then North America only has the Americans??? Maybe Cherokee is in. I was hoping for Apache and Inuit.

I remember there being a big deal that never before seen civs are included. If they were just refering to Mali, than that kinda sucks. Maybe we can use leaderheads from Civ 3 for the Civs we lose in Civ 4. Like Zulu, Carthage, and Babylon...

Greece is in. We've seen Hoplites in preview screenshots.

 

[mitsho]

so is Babylon, since we've seen Agade!

that doesn't mean anything... (if the number of 18 is correct)

 

[Red Threat]

I think Mongols are out.

We know about Genghis Khan only about a magazine article, isn'it?
They (the magazine) might have guessed the presence of GK just to describe a possible leader with a very warlike and pitiless personality.

And I HOPE Native Americans are out. Barbarians are enough to represent the nomad and roaming tribes like Cherokee and Mongols. You'll say: Mongols created the greatest empire. But it lasted just a short time (GK's life) than it was split in many kingdoms that are already represented by other civs like Persia (Ilkhans) and China (Yuan).

And it's possible that GK be an extra leader without civ just like Charles V in C3C.

So, in my logic, both Babylon and Greece are in. Mali is indeed an excellent idea.


I sincerely hope that Babylon hasn't been taken away due to the recent Mesopotamic events.

 

[mitsho]

Genghis has been confirmed by several sources, even Soren mentions him in the video.

However, we have one other civ that has just been confirmed by one short sentence in an interview, that are the Incans. (something like: We have civs that normally only make it into the add-on like Aztecs or Incans, in addition we have completely new civs like Mali)

mfG mitsho

 

[Louis XXIV]

And I HOPE Native Americans are out. Barbarians are enough to represent the nomad and roaming tribes like Cherokee and Mongols.

I think it is fair to say that the Cherokee were not nomadic or roaming. Neither were the Iroquois. The Souix are, of course, but not every Native American tribe is the Souix.

You'll say: Mongols created the greatest empire. But it lasted just a short time (GK's life) than it was split in many kingdoms that are already represented by other civs like Persia (Ilkhans) and China (Yuan).

The same argument could be said for the Greeks (under Alexander), although I suppose one would be happy to point out the Delian League, which was successful in uniting many Greek groups, although not even all the Greeks were united under one government.

 

[Xen]

Greece is in. We've seen Hoplites in preview screenshots.

we've seen hoplites alright.

Hoplites whom are called in game as "spearmen"

 

[Greek Stud]

Anasazi had cities too. Casa Grande, the Pueblo Indians who where part of their nation and trade network. I want them to be called Apache, cause its a cool name. And I want their leader to be Geronimo. That guy was funny. In diplomatic scenes he can trick nations, like he did with Spain and Mexico. Trick them. Go to jail. Kill the guard. And set off on another conquest: Geronimoooooooooooooooo!!!! The horseback riders of the Apaches protected much of the cities against the Aztecs-Mexicans. Some cities are familiar like Twin Peaks. They had many cities, I visited one in New Mexico where the homes are built into the mountains. Real cool places to see, cemetary was a bit freaky, so were the guys at the end of the river trying to sell us opium.