Mana Nodes suggestion

[Nikis-Knight]

(Thought it best to start a new topic than post in one of the design ones, though this may be covered, I haven't read them all)

All of the mana nodes you find lying around are generic and can be turned into any type. I think it might be more fun or strategic if they were specific types preset, so that you had to sort of adapt to the hand you are dealt. Since mages ca gain any sphere on level up and they can be traded (though right now AI greatly under-values them) it would not really close down options for players, but they would be exposed to more spheres than if they always just used fire and life or whatever.

Or a better but more complicated idea would be to divide the spheres into 4 or 5 groups, say, red, blue, green, black and white. White could be improved into spirit, life, meta, or another one. Red into fire, body or one of 2 more, and so on. (don't remember all right now). That way there is some choice, but each type becomes more rare and valuable. Also, as it is now, there are so many choices to upgrade M.N.'s into, it can get overwhelming (but I've only played a few games. Perhaps a meta magic spell could change node color before building on it.

Also, at the moment, do having duplicate nodes give higher level spell shperes? (i.e., fire 2 from owning 2) I can't remember for sure if I tried this, but I think it might not be working right.

 

[Silverkiss]

I liked the idea of having mana groups, that makes sense, hope Kael read and use this suggestion =P

 

[PapaMonkey]

Another limiting thing would be only allow a mage to upgrade a node if he has studied that type of magic. ie. Taking Death 1 allows the mage to make a death node. That makes sense and may limit the choices you have.

 

[Kael]

The plan was to enable the ability to build the different nodes at different techs. So you wouldn't get them all at "Knowledge of the Ether". Instead one tech may allow Law, Life and Nature. Another may grant Death, Entropy and Chaos. And so on.

When I really thought about it I figured that the research of the civ would probably determine what they use mana for more than an ingrained tendancy in the mana itself. It also allowed players to be strategic about the research goals, and we could balance the nodes out by access and relative level, an flavor them a bit more.

We havent done anything with it yet because first we have to teach the ai to make smart choices about to upgrade and when to wait. Otherwise the ai upgrades them all with the first one it gets in any of the options you have described or we are considering.

Once we get the ai to plan ahead we will look at some plan that doesnt dump them all on the player at once.

 

[Nikis-Knight]

That's cool. I'd imagine 90% of games are versus all AI and likely every game has some, so if a fix befuddles them, that's a bigger problem than it's fixing.

 

[kevjm]

How about having terrain types allow a different node? For example, perhaps if tundra or snow tiles allow an ice sphere? And perhaps bar fire?

Or perhaps if some spheres are more... powerful if you have for example a water node on the coast, or with access to fresh water? Perhaps it could unlock a bonus summon or spell? Or even summon a node guardian which will protect the node from attack?

 

[Kael]

How about having terrain types allow a different node? For example, perhaps if tundra or snow tiles allow an ice sphere? And perhaps bar fire?

Or perhaps if some spheres are more... powerful if you have for example a water node on the coast, or with access to fresh water? Perhaps it could unlock a bonus summon or spell? Or even summon a node guardian which will protect the node from attack?

We are trying to fill the slots we have right now.

We decided to not limit the mana node upgrade options. Although it would be good RPG flavor to do so it puts an unessesary limitation on the players options that doesnt serve any functional purpose. It just makes the game more random.

Assume you only have 2 mana nodes by midgame and they are both on hills, but you really wanted to try out some of the entropy wonders and such this game. You are stuck being unable to do so because of a map script.

Limiting mana upgrades on facotrs the player doesnt have control over increases randomness and decreases fun (especially on such a strategic part of the game).

 

[Gyromancer]

Is it possible to use excess mana on the spell end rather than the caster end? (For instance, 2 fire mana means all your fire-based summoned units do 10% more damage, 3 fire mana means Scorch can affect grassland tiles , 4 fire mana means your tile-only spells afffect applicable adjacent tiles, and your summoned fire units/fireballs get +1 range.

You could even have some high-end spells that required a certain number of mana to run. For example Death Storm- requires 4 death mana. Turn 50% of all living units (including the caster, if applicable) within a 5 tile radius into barbarins, with the undead and summoned traits.

This would allow you to toss in some more unbalancing spells, without having to require the long lead time of a wonder production, and without having to worry that everyone and their grandmother will be casting them in the endgame.

Of course, all this would have to be factored in to the AI, on the builder, warmonger, and diplomatic side....

 

[Kael]

Is it possible to use excess mana on the spell end rather than the caster end? (For instance, 2 fire mana means all your fire-based summoned units do 10% more damage, 3 fire mana means Scorch can affect grassland tiles , 4 fire mana means your tile-only spells afffect applicable adjacent tiles, and your summoned fire units/fireballs get +1 range.

You could even have some high-end spells that required a certain number of mana to run. For example Death Storm- requires 4 death mana. Turn 50% of all living units (including the caster, if applicable) within a 5 tile radius into barbarins, with the undead and summoned traits.

This would allow you to toss in some more unbalancing spells, without having to require the long lead time of a wonder production, and without having to worry that everyone and their grandmother will be casting them in the endgame.

Of course, all this would have to be factored in to the AI, on the builder, warmonger, and diplomatic side....

Yes, and we have talked about doing that but each spell will need to be reviewed to see how it "upgrades". And right now we are more concerned with just getting the spells in.