Mandatory drug and STD infection testing before intimacy

[emzie]

Depends on the intimacy. If it's a casual thing, that's ridiculous. If you're in a committed relationship that hasn't hit that level, acknowledging that both of you could be at risk (word it like that, so there's no accusation) and it would be advisable to get tested sounds reasonable.

Next question is IF she turns out positive for something, is it a deal breaker? The effects of STDs are often exagerated: most people with herpes don't know and will never know; only a few HPV strains cause warts (though all might still cause cancer); bacterial (syphilis, gonorrhea , chlamydia) can all be treated; even HIV infections aren't a death sentence.

 

[Pasi Nurminen]

Are you honestly comparing sex with buying a car?

The point is completely moot; if it's a serious relationship, she'd tell you anyways since you would both trust each other. If it's a one night stand, and you're probably the type that finds casual sex repulsive even though you're a virgin and would readily jump in the sack with a sufficiently attractive girl, no one's going to have sex with you if you stop to request papers to prove she doesn't have anything.

I've never been for a job interview where they've done drug or STD testing.

And no, the chances of contracting something (including HIV) during sex in the West is very small. Use a condom, and it drops to virtually nil.

Or just use your brain. Are you having sex with someone who's seen more wangs than a Beijing phone book? Or is the girl in question normal, ie. she's had a few sexual partners within a relationship, and a few casual partners?

 

[emzie]

And no, the chances of contracting something (including HIV) during sex in the West is very small. Use a condom, and it drops to virtually nil.

This is true and painfully untrue. HIV is shockingly hard to contract: a guy has a .5% chance of getting it from a woman; a woman has a 1% chance of getting it from a guy (per session, assuming normal sex -- anal sex is about 5 times as risky and oral about 5 times less risky).

 

[Pasi Nurminen]

This is true and painfully untrue. HIV is shockingly hard to contract: a guy has a .5% chance of getting it from a woman; a woman has a 1% chance of getting it from a guy (per session, assuming normal sex -- anal sex is about 5 times as risky and oral about 5 times less risky).

What do you mean "painfully untrue"?

Two reasons HIV is so prevalent in Africa:

1) Rape. About 30% of all HIV/AIDS sufferers in Africa contract it through rape, when no condom is used and there is a high chance of lacerations in the vagina (since the woman is not aroused and does not self-lubricate).

2) Blood transfusions.

In North America, where both are far less common and STD education is far better, you have a lot fewer cases.

 

[warpus]

Where did I say that? I don't think people should be legally required to do any such thing.

However, I think it is a reasonable request to make on a personal level, and within the rights of any individual to make.

I don't think you'd get to spend much time with a girl on a personal level if you asked her to pee in a cup on the first date.

 

[emzie]

What do you mean "painfully untrue"?

Two reasons HIV is so prevalent in Africa:

1) Rape. About 30% of all HIV/AIDS sufferers in Africa contract it through rape, when no condom is used and there is a high chance of lacerations in the vagina (since the woman is not aroused and does not self-lubricate).

2) Blood transfusions.

In North America, where both are far less common and STD education is far better, you have a lot fewer cases.

Tell that to my father. You can flash statistics all you want (even I did in my post) but that doesn't diminish the fact there is still a chance and some people will get screwed over far more than I can possibly explain.

 

[Pasi Nurminen]

Tell that to my father.

Why don't you just say what you mean?

So your father got HIV. Should I be scared to walk on the street at night because a few months ago one person was shot in my hometown, a rare occurance?

 

[emzie]

Why don't you just say what you mean?

So your father got HIV. Should I be scared to walk on the street at night because a few months ago one person was shot in my hometown, a rare occurance?

Okay. My father got HIV. And then AIDS. And then died. Should you be scared? No. Am I scared? Not in the slightest. If I wern't married (and I were a casual sex guy) what happened wouldn't deter me -- it'd only prompt me to get tested regularly.

There is risk involved with everything. HIV is pretty low risk, but not one that should be ignored.

 

[Pasi Nurminen]

For Christ's sake, I'm not saying you should run around town and bang everything in sight without a rubber. Anyone with an ounce of self respect uses a rubber. What I'm saying is that it's silly to live in paranoia of getting an STD, like HIV, when few women in the west have it and the chances of getting it from a woman per exposure are tiny.

And really, what woman is going to enter into a serious relationship without telling you she has HIV? That's a criminal offence in this country.

 

[emzie]

For Christ's sake, I'm not saying you should run around town and bang everything in sight without a rubber. Anyone with an ounce of self respect uses a rubber. What I'm saying is that it's silly to live in paranoia of getting an STD, like HIV, when few women in the west have it and the chances of getting it from a woman per exposure are tiny.

And really, what woman is going to enter into a serious relationship without telling you she has HIV? That's a criminal offence in this country.

It's possible to have an STD / HIV and not know.

edit: I'm not saying that people should demand proof before having sex. I'm only advocating getting yourself tested.

 

[Lotus49]

It's possible to have an STD / HIV and not know.

edit: I'm not saying that people should demand proof before having sex. I'm only advocating getting yourself tested.

"Get youself tested"? That's a great philosophy. So good, in fact, that it should be fully applied. And yet, it would seem to be the case that it takes two to tango - so what about the dance partner? Suddenly it's okay to merely half-@ssedly apply the philosophy?

 

[warpus]

"Get youself tested"? That's a great philosophy. So good, in fact, that it should be fully applied. And yet, it would seem to be the case that it takes two to tango - so what about the dance partner? Suddenly it's okay to merely half-@ssedly apply the philosophy?

Their right to privacy overrides your right to enforce your philosophy on other people, in this case.

If you don't think that condoms are good enough protection against catching STDs from people who you don't trust, then don't have sex with people you don't trust.

If you don't think that condoms are good enough protection against catching STDs from people who you do trust, then maybe you guys aren't talking enough. Ask her if she has STDs.. tactfully! and at the right moment. Don't just demand drug tests right off the bat, that's just rude.

 

[Colonel]

and I quote

"Hey get tested" the guy
"WTH, WTH do you think I am some ****" girl
"No no, I didn..."
*SMACK*
*Door Slam*

Now your alone, kids did you learn anything from this educational video.
"Yea make up a lie to get her tested"

As an example kids
Say that the doctors think you have some blood disease where they need you to go get tested for everything, then say your scared to do it alone, and bingo she gets tested. Same applies for women, you may have to break a tear or two though.

 

[mrt144]

Why should my standards be less than any respectable equal opportunity employer? They screen their tentative hires with background checks, drug testing, interviews, credentials verification, etc. -And they're not even swapping juices with ya!

I mean, even when you go buy a dog, like a German Shepherd... no papers, no deal. Why would I accept a woman with no papers, for crying out loud? She tells me, "I'm clean". Yeah, and that's supposed to be good enough? She 'looks okay'? Isn't that like when a coworker trys to rip you off by selling you his Mustang for twice the BlueBook price, just because he's "changed the oil every 1,500 miles" all it's life? And you're gonna pay for that, eh? -Then go buy a house, and just take the previous owner's word for it, "there's no termites, I'm tellin' ya".

Hey, have you guys SEEN the pictures of what some of these STDs will do to your genitals? This isn't fun and games. Be sure, or be alone - I say. It's not worth the risk. And the percentages/odds of contracting SOMETHING are getting substantially high. OK, maybe not HIV. But, forgive me for not being the kind of person that thinks, "ah, well anything else, I don't care -- let's go get it on".

I guess I'm just not stupid. It's a fundamental difference I have, with most people. I appologize. I thought several years of boxing would have normalized me, but obviously not... I should have stuck with it for an entire career, then I would 'fit in' after eventually sustaining catastrophoic levels of brain damage. Oh, well.

You 'appologize' for not being stupid? okaaaaaaaaay. like i said, my STD has had a minimal effect on my sex life or general health. i admit i dont have a serious STD but you sound like youve never had sex and arent evaluating the risk/reward of it like someone who has. Ive never heard of anyone being so paranoid about something that is totally within their control. some people rather be 'stupid' and enjoy life rather than be sheltered from all possible pleasures and joys that life has to offer because of an irrational fear of STDs.

And it is irrational because you want to be absolutely safe to the point where you would alienate most potential partners. its like being afraid of bird flu, sure it sucks to get but you can avoid it without stockpiling ammo and toilet paper. there are simple, rational ways to prevent diseases.

I don't know why you're looking for validation on your crazy ass standards. obviously you just want to have someone else confirm that you arent wrong but guess what, when you take an attitude towards sex that is like buying a car then you are wrong.

also the kind of women you most likely would attract arent going to most likely be that experienced because any woman that was would think you're high to have the level of confirmation you want. No one is debating the merits of the minimum you propose. furthermore, are condoms out of the question? are you that paranoid and unwilling to use condoms?

you just perplex me by your rationale for all this. validation on your paranoia? and how defensive you are about it.

 

[mrt144]

and I quote

"Hey get tested" the guy
"WTH, WTH do you think I am some ****" girl
"No no, I didn..."
*SMACK*
*Door Slam*

Now your alone, kids did you learn anything from this educational video.
"Yea make up a lie to get her tested"

As an example kids
Say that the doctors think you have some blood disease where they need you to go get tested for everything, then say your scared to do it alone, and bingo she gets tested. Same applies for women, you may have to break a tear or two though.

is this a joke? what kind of asshat would have invent a story for something as reasonable as that?

 

[Grisu]

Why should my standards be less than any respectable equal opportunity employer? They screen their tentative hires with background checks, drug testing, interviews, credentials verification, etc. -And they're not even swapping juices with ya!

well, first, hiring somebody isn't the same as getting in bed with them...second, I never had to take a drug test for any job I took

I mean, even when you go buy a dog, like a German Shepherd... no papers, no deal. Why would I accept a woman with no papers, for crying out loud? She tells me, "I'm clean". Yeah, and that's supposed to be good enough? She 'looks okay'? Isn't that like when a coworker trys to rip you off by selling you his Mustang for twice the BlueBook price, just because he's "changed the oil every 1,500 miles" all it's life? And you're gonna pay for that, eh? -Then go buy a house, and just take the previous owner's word for it, "there's no termites, I'm tellin' ya".

well, if you are about to get in bed with a woman you don't even trust that far then that's your problem. Furthermore...ever heard of protection? it's not 100% protection but neither is showing papers of cleanlines...After all, even if she got tested negative for every known STD last week, she could have had mad sex with some STD-infected guy in the meantime, after all, you don't trust her word anyway...

Hey, have you guys SEEN the pictures of what some of these STDs will do to your genitals? This isn't fun and games. Be sure, or be alone - I say. It's not worth the risk. And the percentages/odds of contracting SOMETHING are getting substantially high. OK, maybe not HIV. But, forgive me for not being the kind of person that thinks, "ah, well anything else, I don't care -- let's go get it on".

if you use protection the the risks aren't that high anymore. ok, higher in the US than here, but still. And if you want to have unprotected sex with just about anybody then, again, that's your problem. but just a little warning: those 'cleanlines-test' don't have a 100% accuracy either....

 

[mdwh]

If by wrong, you mean, morally, sure, you can do what you like. You might have to be single for a while though.

I'm not sure why you lump drugs together with STDs. Wanting to know about the latter is perfectly reasonable - though requiring proof is hardly the basis for any sort of relationship (you're basically saying you don't trust their word - well, it's reasonable to also ask they get tested if they haven't recently - but you say you want to see the written proof, and even see the tests being done, because you don't believe them!), and if it's a one night stand, you're not going to get that documentation anyway.

Whilst not liking people who use any drugs is up to you (do you include drink and cigarettes in that by the way? Nothing wrong if you do of course, indeed that would be consistent), insisting on testing isn't exactly going to win you much intimacy.

I assume you are happy to go along with whatever tests they would require, then?

 

[IglooDame]

With all of my sexual partners, there was trust before there was sex.

And your comparisons to buying a car and employment are exactly why the woman would get offended - you're treating sex with her like a business transaction, meaning you see her as either a prostitute or a john, neither being particularly complimentary.

 

[The Yankee]

And I'm fully prepared for whatever consequences along those lines. As I just said previously, I have my priorities.

But the problem is... the extent to which I require 'proof of cleanliness'. The only way a woman would go along with the seemingly germophobic regimen/ordeal that I have in store, is if they really REALLY wanted to make out with me... to the point where they're willing to go down to the lab and break their biology down shotgun style before rebuilding it and taking it to the firing range. And that seldom ever comes my way, unfortunately.

I guess my point of view is; there is NO enounter within the realm of physical experience that is worth a 0.01% chance/risk of getting herpes in the process. And out there, the odds are far greater.

I suppose all this makes the case for getting to know a person before hopping into bed with them. You might require the testing anyway (and it isn't 100% accurate...if she slept with someone last week and got it, it may not show on tests today, IIRC), but then again, you may have the basis for more trust than just scouting the bar scene or wherever you may be for the local tail.

 

[Masquerouge]

Such tests are mandatory for marriage in France. The idea is that there must be no "hidden surprises" when you decide to marry someone.

EDIT: only for STD, though, not drugs, and you won't be prevented from getting married, it will just be communicated to your future spouse