Manhatan Project? Why build it?

[TheMeInTeam]

Don't build the manhatan project, we don't need it to achieve a victory, afterwards there are global warming and tiles turning into deserts.

If you do choose to build it SDI becomes available which civs could get and nukes will have no effect.

You tell good jokes.

Nukes are easily the most gamebreaking late-game option in existence.

Desert Fairy Magic (DFM) trash mechanic is a pain, but it really doesn't change the relative position of civs at all so if you're going for a military victory and have reached the time of nukes, nukes are one of the most sensible ways to deal with AI bonuses/stacks and nearly insta-kill civs.

SDI saves nobody. Tactical nukes have just under 63% chance to hit even after SDI is built. If you have a good production base, it's an annoyance rather than a serious deterrent.

 

[Seraiel]

I never did that, but if I got the forums right, after banning nukes in the UN, all negative Diplo-modifiers from having used them are deleted aswell, right? I heard a lot of Diplomatic Victories are achieved this way (very logical ) .

 

[raxid]

Nukes are a fun way for the lazy to end the game without building a navy. You can capitulate people with nukes alone.

 

[Tatran]

ICBMs are also very good to slow down a cultural victory.
The terrain will be useless and most buildings will be gone after a few nukes.

 

[Chingis]

Hmm.... it looks like this conversation went from why building the manhattan project to the helpfullness of nukes but still, if you are techhnologicly backwards, don't. if you have lots of techs, build it

 

[Archon_Wing]

Because the AI is stupid (Do I need to say it), they are unable to capitalize on when the Project is built. They will of course build nukes if they can, but they won't be like us and will have like say, tons of gold saved up to instantly rushbuy a bunch of nukes 2 turns after the project is finished. Sometimes they build it themselves and take a while to construct their own.

And of course we can do the nuke+ invade with navy+ raze overpowered tactic that the AI is not capable of doing or defending against effectively.

Civ is about current advantages. Being able to dictate when nukes come is one of the largest.

 

[Ghpstage]

Hmm.... it looks like this conversation went from why building the manhattan project to the helpfullness of nukes but still, if you are techhnologicly backwards, don't. if you have lots of techs, build it

Of course to give a reasonable assessment of whether the Manhattan Project is worth building requires knowledge of its impacts, including the power and usage of nukes, and for single player how the AI fares uses them lol and when they are likely to build the project themselves....

By the way the underlined isn't true at all.
Nukes are the best way for a smaller, backwards civ to take out much bigger, and much stronger rivals, and they do so very reliably too if you know how to use them. Hammers saved by not building it likely won't be worth the delay of letting the AI do it for you.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

You almost want nukes around if you're backwards. They're an equalizer in the biggest way; AI bonuses evaporate instantly in a cloud of radiation as their stacks disappear and their tile improvements are instantly destroyed. If you get a good first strike, your opponent will die within a turn or two, and all you need is fission, rocketry, radio, fascism, and flight. Nothing later is too important; the big deal is to be able to tactical nuke everything off of subs on the turn you declare, then capture the cities. With fascism/flight you can build paratroopers, which can be boated into a city, unloaded, and used to capture inland cities that have been nuked free of units on the same turn unless they have workers/executives in there (where you'll probably get the kill next turn).

Who cares if the defenders are rifles or mech infantry? They're toast either way, and it's not like you'll be giving the AI a chance to react.

You do need enough production for such a deathstrike though. What you don't want are pitched nuke battles when your empire isn't massive because THAT will get you killed as even a few nukes hitting one's own cities is devastating. But when you have decent production and can lay down that first strike? Win.

 

[Seraiel]

Any answer to my question? Get Diplo-modifiers from having used nukes get deleted with banning nukes, leading to an easy diplomatic victory? Or does anybody only always read the last post (or not even that) ?

 

[Archon_Wing]

Any answer to my question? Get Diplo-modifiers from having used nukes get deleted with banning nukes, leading to an easy diplomatic victory? Or does anybody only always read the last post (or not even that) ?

Well, maybe they read your post and wondered why you couldn't spend a few minutes testing it yourself. :S Not to mention there's only 6 hours between your posts.

And the answer is no, that would be really stupid. Though that never stopped Firaxis.
The reason why people when Diplo after nuking is because you lowered the rivals' population so badly you can have a majority.

Spoiler :

 

[W|M]

Regardless of all previous posts, there is one reason why nukes should always be used, at all times:

BECAUSE THEY LOOK AWESOME

 

[Chingis]

Regardless of all previous posts, there is one reason why nukes should always be used, at all times:

BECAUSE THEY LOOK AWESOME

Yes we know, nukes explode, what did you think they did? just destroy what ever it lands on

 

[happyturtle]

west india man makes a good point.

 

[Seraiel]

Well, maybe they read your post and wondered why you couldn't spend a few minutes testing it yourself. :S Not to mention there's only 6 hours between your posts.

And the answer is no, that would be really stupid. Though that never stopped Firaxis.
The reason why people when Diplo after nuking is because you lowered the rivals' population so badly you can have a majority.

Spoiler :

Ty for letting me know diplo-modifiers aren't erased.

Just as a sidenote: There is 1 day between my posts, and I know that TMIT read it and that he knows, because he's the most excessive Nuke-user on these forums. I spend a lot of time doing things that help the community or individuals, that's why I assumed I could get something like that back, but you did it without knowing me, because if you'd knew me, you'd know that I understand as much about nukes and Worldbuilder as a n00b of Deity, due to ending my games before them and playing for HoF with BUFFY mod only.

Thx again for you investing some work for me, I'll remember it when you'll need help.

Regards, Seraiel

 

[TheMeInTeam]

I know that TMIT read it and that he knows, because he's the most excessive Nuke-user on these forums.

I don't remember the last time I actually voted for a nuke ban while intending to use them though .

 

[noto2]

Nukes in Civ work somewhat like they do in real life. They are an equalizer. Why would you build the Manhattan Project? Because perhaps nukes would be the most efficient defensive unit for you. If you're a small, advanced civ, and your rival is a huge but less advanced civ, nukes might be the best weapon of choice. Let's say he's got 200 tanks. You can build modern armour, great, but you've only got 30 of them. You could try to match your rival's military with your more advanced units, but his sheer numbers could still overwhelm you. This is where nukes come in. As long as you have tons of nukes, and much more than he does, your military can match his, even if his army is 4 or 5 times as big as yours. Furthermore, you can do things like build SDI and bunkers and get to ecology sooner so that if you do get into a nuclear exchange you will suffer far less damage than your enemy. Nukes are a very cost efficient unit.
And of course this is true offensively as well. As TMIT said, nukes have amazing potential as first strike units. In almost any standard size map you can use tactical nukes launched from border cities and/or ships/subs and completely wipe out nearly every enemy city in one turn. MAD doesn't exist in Civ the way i tdoes in real life, so first strike capability is much more of a reality in this game.

 

[midget_roxx]

Is it possible for global warming (or DFM ) to make the whole world a desert?

 

[TheMeInTeam]

I'm not sure if ice will ever turn to desert, but yes the entire world can be desert other than ocean and 0 food tiles. All the resource tiles stay though, and seafood will give its yield forever.

 

[Archon_Wing]

Ty for letting me know diplo-modifiers aren't erased.

Just as a sidenote: There is 1 day between my posts, and I know that TMIT read it and that he knows, because he's the most excessive Nuke-user on these forums. I spend a lot of time doing things that help the community or individuals, that's why I assumed I could get something like that back, but you did it without knowing me, because if you'd knew me, you'd know that I understand as much about nukes and Worldbuilder as a n00b of Deity, due to ending my games before them and playing for HoF with BUFFY mod only.

Thx again for you investing some work for me, I'll remember it when you'll need help.

Regards, Seraiel

Whoops, that wasn't 6 hours. That was 30 hours. Anyhow, I just found a bit strange, since most of us spend a lot of time on Civ, so a few minutes seemed like fairly trivial for you to test. So, sorry for making fun. XD

Well, a few minutes isn't trivial when it's lagging. I'm sure someone can rant about that.

I also helped you, because I hate it when people go "search the board" and "test it yourself" and don't give an answer. This results in me googling answers that say "search for it" -_-;

 

[Pangaea]

Searching for things can also be very difficult, either by google or the site itself. Not always easy to find what you are looking for. And if you then happen to find a relevant topic that is old, you get mobbed for "necro'ing" it.