Manufactories

[LukaSlovenia29]

Hi.

I can't seem to find the thread where various options to buff manufactories were discussed. If anyone can locate it, please, post the link here.

I think manufactories are one of the last remaining elements of VP that are in sore need of adjusting. In my games, I almost never ever plant manufactories, instead waiting to use them (in combination with another GE, with investing in the wonder, yields from Way of Transcendence...) later on in the game. What are your thoughts on this? Do you often plant manufactories? Do you think they need a buff? If so, what kind?

Thanks for your thoughts&replies.

 

[Der_Zorn_gottes]

I use the first GE for a manufactory - but only to unlock the +15% production from windmills from that event, which requires the manufactory. Thats the only reason I want one.

 

[LukaSlovenia29]

Thanks for the reply. I don't play with events, but I agree that that is a good reason to build one manufactory.

 

[bigcat88]

I can use 1 or 2 GE to build manufactories in new cities with low production, just to boost their infrastructure. But better to use caravan/cargo
Other will spend on wonders. Currently I don't think that non Tradition civ must build manufactories. Only maybe if city are in flood plains without hills(too much food and no production). In other situations - no manufactories.
If manufactories give +1 food, I will start to think about building them.

 

[phantomaxl1207]

I tried increasing their base and scaling Yields by 1 so I feel better about them. Mines just scale too good for them in comparison.

 

[LukaSlovenia29]

Writing down some ideas for discussion (some that I remember from past discussions from other members):
1. Increase base yields by 2 science (to represent the technological advancement coming from industrial centers).
2. Increase base yields by 2 production.
3. Increase the yields from surrounding mines, lumber mills and quarries (perhaps 1 production and/or 1 gold?), using the code from polders that grant extra gold to nearby towns and villages.
4. Like with towns/villages, increase the yields from trade routes and city connections going through the manufactory.
5. Increase base yields by 2 food.
6. Increase base yields by 1 food and 1 production.
7. Increase the yields from surrounding GPTI, using the code from polders that grant extra gold to nearby towns and villages.

 

[Gokudo01]

Writing down some ideas for discussion (some that I remember from past discussions from other members):
1. Increase base yields by 2 science (to represent the technological advancement coming from industrial centers).
2. Increase base yields by 2 production.
3. Increase the yields from surrounding mines, lumber mills and quarries (perhaps 1 production and/or 1 gold?), using the code from polders that grant extra gold to nearby towns and villages.
4. Like with towns/villages, increase the yields from trade routes and city connections going through the manufactory.
5. Increase base yields by 2 food.
6. Increase base yields by 1 food and 1 production.
7. Increase the yields from surrounding GPTI, using the code from polders that grant extra gold to nearby towns and villages.

I think just increase production with a little food wont change anything.
one tile with 12 production will represent nothing after medieval.
Moreover the engineer is always a choice between Wonder and extra production. Its not like you choose between faster tech and more science per turn.
Wonders are unique and many of them are gamechanging. The good wonders will have an impact all game long unless you are planing to get them from other
So unless you are making expanding engineer useless to rush wonders, you have to give us A big reason to not rush that pyramid/hanging garden/etc ...

 

[ElliotS]

I think just increase production with a little food wont change anything.
one tile with 12 production will represent nothing after medieval.
Moreover the engineer is always a choice between Wonder and extra production. Its not like you choose between faster tech and more science per turn.
Wonders are unique and many of them are gamechanging. The good wonders will have an impact all game long unless you are planing to get them from other
So unless you are making expanding engineer useless to rush wonders, you have to give us A big reason to not rush that pyramid/hanging garden/etc ...

I think you're underrating current Manufacturies. They're niche, but not worthless. I would buff surrounding mines, lumber mills and quarries by 1 production and increase scaling. That's plenty to make them valuable I think.

 

[Gokudo01]

I think you're underrating current Manufacturies. They're niche, but not worthless. I would buff surrounding mines, lumber mills and quarries by 1 production and increase scaling. That's plenty to make them valuable I think.

so you would give more production to already great production cities ? I don't plant tons of manufacturies but I usually put them where I m a little starved in production and if I'm playing tradition ( you get it sooner ) I 100% use it in a wonder.

 

[Workerspam]

I've been using most of my early and mid game GEs for Manufacturies. They get a lot more yield bumps than they used to; they were worth 21 production on flat desert tiles in early Atomic in one of my recent games. Obviously that's with various resolutions and buildings in effect but it's a tile worth working; that's also without any bonuses from Infixio's various mods (I had them active but didn't have any wonders/CS bonuses that would effect the tile yields).

I found I don't usually need the GE to grab early wonders I want and if I do use them on early wonders they are very weak for rushing later ones. Five Manufacturies doubles the effectiveness of a GE while also providing 5 super productive tiles. I feel like that's a good trade off.

 

[ElliotS]

they were worth 21 production

This is more than I remember. What's the unmodified amount of production a manufactury gives throughout the game?

 

[Gokudo01]

I've been using most of my early and mid game GEs for Manufacturies. They get a lot more yield bumps than they used to; they were worth 21 production on flat desert tiles in early Atomic in one of my recent games. Obviously that's with various resolutions and buildings in effect but it's a tile worth working; that's also without any bonuses from Infixio's various mods (I had them active but didn't have any wonders/CS bonuses that would effect the tile yields).

I found I don't usually need the GE to grab early wonders I want and if I do use them on early wonders they are very weak for rushing later ones. Five Manufacturies doubles the effectiveness of a GE while also providing 5 super productive tiles. I feel like that's a good trade off.

so are there fine or not ? I don't understand the purpose of this thread ^^

 

[Workerspam]

so are there fine or not ? I don't understand the purpose of this thread ^^

The closing "I feel like that's a good trade off" means I think manufacturies are fine. They provide good yields while making later GEs significantly more powerful at the trade off of rushing fewer early wonders.

 

[Workerspam]

This is more than I remember. What's the unmodified amount of production a manufactury gives throughout the game?

I was surprised at how potent they became too; that's why I checked the Wonders and CS alliances I had to make sure one of Infixo's mods hadn't caused them to be artificially inflated. In my game the GP improvement resolution was passed and I had Factories; I'll have to check next time I'm in-game to see what the improved yields by tech numbers are.

 

[Mad Madigan]

I find manufactories to be more useful for certain playstyles over others. In many cases it is well worth it to dump every GE you get into a Wonder, but there are also times when I get a GE but have no Wonder upcoming soon and would rather boost the production of a city that lacks good production tiles around it. If I had to suggest any buffs to manufactories, it would be to add Gold as a secondary yield to represent the economics benefits of having a bustling industrial site, but so far I do not feel that Gold is an issue with the current version.

 

[Enrico Swagolo]

Manufactories aren't very good, but they aren't that bad. I will pop one or two to get a permanent boost to my future Engineers if I care not for any currently available wonders or if my start is so devoid of production, my capital pretty much needs it to get stuff done. I'd maybe add to them +1/2 base Production (maybe lowering Metal Casting bonus if the latter) and +2 Gold to some medieval tech. I don't agree about having them boost mines or anything, it hurts the AI which won't understand how to plant it properly and it'd require new code for them not to be disadvantaged.

 

[Workerspam]

I think I figured out why my manufactury tiles were worth 21 in my previous game. I can get to 13 through tech bumps and factories, another 1 from the GP Improvements resolution, but that still leaves 7 I can't account for. It's possible both my flat desert manufacturies happened to be on top of oil and I didn't notice; 7 seems about right for Rationalism boosted, improved oil. Still one heck of a tile but the Manufacturies were getting a healthy assist.

I popped a couple more manufacturies in my new game and, yeah, I have to admit they are rather underwhelming early on. I'd be in favor of either an early 2 boost in Classical or just add 2 to the base. In Renaissance they were only 3 over featureless mines (with a Forge in the city); not bad but could be better.

 

[RAuer2]

@Workerspam If you happened to have the New Deal tenet from Freedom, that would have added to the manufactory total (+4, I think?).

 

[Workerspam]

@Workerspam If you happened to have the New Deal tenet from Freedom, that would have added to the manufactory total (+4, I think?).

I completely forgot about that tenet and I'm pretty sure I took it for the first time in ages in that game (isolated China with a religion so I went with cheaper prophets as my enhancer and planted a ton of holy sites in addition to my manufacturies and academies). The wiki has it at +5 of the appropriate yield; the wiki can fall out of date but I don't recall that tenet being changed anytime recent. So that would just leave 2 unaccounted for; I'm probably just missing a boost somewhere.

I still believe they could use an early game boost. If my late game, tenet enhanced, resolution boosted manufacturies would now reach 23, hats off to me for resisting the instant gratification of rushed wonders.

 

[Chandler]

Hm... What if we give the Manufactories some extra if you put them on top of resources? I mean... I know recently some improvements (such as pastures or quarries) were buffed to avoid putting GP improvements on top of them.

But with Manufactories... I don't know. It seems right to do so, to increase the "production", the same way you get more and from Towns, if you put them on top of Roads and Trade Routes.

What about +2 from Bonus Resources, +2 from Strategic Resources, and +3 from Luxury Resources? That way, you have some flexibility, depending on what you might need. And it shouldn't be too difficult for the AI to understand it, would it?

Again, just an idea.