Many Leaders Game 8 - Fall From Heaven

[moverred]

Thank you Moverred. I look forward to hearing more of your fireball throwing adventures. By the way, i do believe that you can use 'loyalty' on lunatics (since you researched mind-stapling) to prevent them becoming barb and still get the bonuses from being 'crazed' and 'enraged' if you ever pick up law mana. Thats a mana node you might have to build though- i am not sure that your enemies have any to demand.
I'm not sure what you're going to use necromancy for, but i look forward to it.
Will you using your drowns to get around the mountains and visit the Lanun, Doviello or Balseraphs?

I.

I sent one adventurous Drown to the east but made a mistake that cost him his life and then lost interest for it, decided I needed to stockpile in the south to protect my wonder building cities to the north.

The necromancy is for my Hero, Govannon. He can teach the summon skeleton spell and so I will have an army of skeletons to use as fodder in the upcoming war.

That is a wonderful idea about using the loyalty spell on lunatics. I have not built any yet nor have I really committed myself to going down the Religious tree, but if I do that is a combo that I will have to try.

 

[schwartz]

Hey guys, been following along with this thread for a while and now I'm looking to learn this mod so I'm joining in! I'll probably try to catch up by playing 1-100 all together and getting some advice before proceeding.
Some great games to read here!

 

[moverred]

Ok, for sake of time I am not going to go about these reports like I did before. That was way too time consuming.

Spoiler :

The latest history is in, and it shows us leading the way in research. Just the way we like it!



The Dark Arts of Necromancy have been unlocked. This gives us access to Summon Skeleton, which Govannon (when built) can teach to Adept and Soldier alike. It is also on the way to Arcane Lore. The other Spheres will be unlocked via Great Sages.



Saverous has been created. He is a descent UU with all the undead promotions.



We divert to Hunting so that we can work the Ivory in the fat radius of the capital. Extra hammers and happiness will help greatly.



We were informed that Orthus had fallen. I believe the Lunun were his downfall.

To the southeast, we find that there is a barbarian uprising taking place and threatening to overrun the Elohim. They do lose a city.



In a very interesting turn of events, the Illian ambassodor came begging for me to leave my people to set their ship aright. No thanks, but flattering.



Charadon has decided to kick Ethne while she is down and declares war. She then comes a knocking to seek military aid. Not gonna get into that mess at this point.





Another Gold Age? Free?



On the diplomatic front, open boarders are signed with the Luchirp, so now if I need to send troops to aid the Elohim, I can. Charadon shows his love for us by demanding our Maps! We send him away empty handed. Don't mess. The Luchirp and Lunun though are such buddies that they both gift us their maps. How nice.





We complete the Great Library! This will combine with two additional Sages to give us some Great Sages to Tech Pop a bit. I really like this wonder even better in FFH, and is saying a lot.



Charadon had the gumption to try and recruit us into his war? Uh-uh amigo, I don't think so.



Archeron the Red has found a home. He would be a nice target someday, if he's not too far away that is.



Bad news for the AC, the Ashen Vail has been founded by Perpantach and the Illians have constructed the Prophecy of Ragnorok. As I don't want to have every unit I build in that city (yes, it is a target for expansion), I may have to raze it to the ground. Sad.



A great person is born and he pops Divination. Then I learn Sorcery shortly after. Things are moving along. Once I get Mages rolling the Amurites should really start rocking.





The strat is to get some wizards, Govannon, and a bunch of warriors summoning skeletons and then go on a rampage. Should be happening shortly.

 

[Ozbenno]

OK, a starting save for schwartz.

Have a look (if you haven't already) at everyone's start and see what works for you.

It is also important to see what your race's UUs, UBs and heroes are and where they are in the tech tree, so you can plan towards acquiring them as quickly as possible.

For the Svaltfar, their hero (Alkazan the Assasin) is unlocked by Posions and they have a UB Hunting Lodge (unlocked by Hunting) that gives uber-hunters.

Good hunting!

 

[·Imhotep·]

The Tale of Sabathiel - ch. V

Spoiler :

When I left the game at turn 250 I had to decide whether to pursue Orders from heaven straightaway or fill in Mining and BW in order to get the gems online first. In the end I decided to pursue the religion first as I didn't want to lose it. And I got good news on the 1st turn...



This means I have nothing to fear from Auric at present, and also not from the Dwarves - they're friendly to me. Ethne's growth and power is disturbing though, guess I'll have to deal with her soon.

Get a bad event.



But it could have been worse. The Lanun are experiencing why a full-grown Orthus is hard to deal with, especially if you lack units...



The hilarious thing about it is that Hannah had just connected the Bronze when Orthus took the city .

And finally the first major goal of my game is accomplished:



Most conveniently the Order is founded in the city where my GP hasc waited for Ages...



...so that I can build the Code of Junil on the very same turn.



And of course I adopt the Order. I want Valin Phanuel ASAP...



Time to backfill the needed worker techs...



The Order has spread to the Lanun also, but they have not adopted it yet.



I'll build a few galleys when I got my army ready and pay Hannah a visit. I want that copper and Orthus' Axe...

Ethne is getting very powerful. Right now she is pleased with me, but I have to stop her at some point...



The next sets will be fun, as things will pick up now with my religion in the bag and more needed techs coming in...

Imhotep

 

[Immaculate]

I can't see any picture Imhotep.

Spoiler :

Congrats on getting order; i look forward to your invasion of Hannah. Good choice by the way. She has very nice land to develop and it lets the other civs fight over the valley north of ethne.

 

[·Imhotep·]

@Immaculate:

Spoiler :

That's odd, they show fine for me. Never had problems with Imageshack either. Have you tried right-cklicking on them and issue the command "Show picture" ?

Yeah, getting Order is huge as it was part of my gameplan. I'll wait 'till I got Valin Phanuel ready and then I'll kick some Lanun ass . It's mainly for the copper I'm fighting because it gives you a real edge to units without metal weaponry...and by the looks Hannah is weak, she couldn't even stop Orthus...

 

[Ralph_Jackson]

Thoughts on Hyborem

Spoiler :

Well the most unique bit about Hyborem’s cities is that both and :angry: become completely irrelevant.

His cities neither grow nor shrink with food / deficits. What does this mean
1. Perfect for city specialization. Want production just put them all on mines. Want Commerce just put them all on cottages
2. Need to war to let them grow. Only by killing neutral and evil Ai units can you grow them. Basically you need to work out how many ‘good’ tiles you have in each BFC (e.g for a commerce city how many riverside cottages you can have) and get the city to that size
3. Good for great People. With no starvation you can assign as many specialist as you have slots.
No chopping. All the terrain in the BFC becomes hell terrain automatically so now woods left to chop, but also no jungle to clear

Strategy

Spoiler :

Phase 1 quickly recapture my old empire
Start Rosier the fallen
Phase 2 Attack another neighbour (probably Ethne as she is number one)

Report

Spoiler :

Hyborem starts with a good mini-army and he himself is of course a complete beast

Well we immediately attack Os Gabella and as I had left it in low military mode we quickly reclaimed our old empire





During this war (as Os Gabella is evil) we generated a couple of manes to get our cities growing.

Now the Veil had spread to Hannah of the Irin which explains why I wanted to get Rosier going fast as the AI tends to want to build a hero like this as soon as possible. With the shrine built this is a nice little boost to research so I will leave her to spread the religion around for a while , before backstabbing her of course...

With Os Gabella gone we move onto Ethne the white


And have advance towards her capital by the end.


Economy is looking good

 

[Immaculate]

The infernals really look cool.

I can see your pictures just fine now Imhotep. don't know what was wrong before.

i.

 

[Vitek]

Sheim empire from 200 to 250.

Spoiler :

I don't understand why you prioritized philosophy and way of the wicked before bronze working. Are you using slavery? Or did you just decide you wanted bronze working after you had already teched way of the wicked?

That was mostly by mistake. I didn’t realize that burning jungle will still leave forests and thus it brings nothing to me. (Just during this set I noticed that it’s possible to build improvements on New forest. I also decided that Pyre zombies will be more handy than Diseased corpses. (For softening up Ethne’s archers.) And also I am really indecisive and often change my course of play.

Spoiler :

OK, plans have changed. I thought I can make some war in this turnset but it turned out to be quite boring set with only few events.
Also my jungle cleansing process brought some unexpected problems.



This tile remainded on fire almost all the time and thus I was unable to get units down for battle. Luck it didn’t happen during some war. As soon as fire ceased worker has to cut these forests down.

In this timespan only one tech was researched.



Than research moved on Corruption of spirit hic has only 6 turns remaining now (Out of 43).

With Bronze working new unit became available. Pyre zombies. And their „training“ (or how they are produced) started promptly.


Livy came with his work about most cultured civilization. We are not faring too well but culture is not absolutely our goal.



The most notable thing is war between Ethne and Garrim. Seems that our good neigbors are not so good as they claim to be. Ethne asked for help and we declined. Later though this war can be used like nice distraction. Hope it doesn’t end soon.



That’s all worth noticing what happened in this turnset. I also continued with improving land with mines, cottages and farms and consturcting units and buildings. Planar gate is scheduled in 5 turns, then I need to get AC up to get as many creatures as possible.
Here is overview of situation on turn 250.

 

[Ozbenno]

I've looked at the 250 turn games now and have the following notes of interest. I haven't looked at any games beyond 250 turns so apologies if my questions have been already answered.

Spoiler :

@Vitek - Boxed in by your own fire, bummer . Might need some water mana to get out. Playing with pyre zombies can be fun. Interesting to see the Elohim and Luchirup at war, hopefully you can use this to your advantage. Also interested to see what pops out of your Planar Gate. You haven't hooked up Yggrasdil to your cities for the extra . You also have enabled Slavery civic but haven't adopted it, is it in your plans?

@Ralph - Good to see the fun has begun. A CR Hyborem is unstoppale at this stage of the game. Especially with the speed you researched Infernal Pact. Hopefully we see a huge sized city. It would have been interesting (from a neutral's point of view), if you had spawned in the wilderness

@Immaculate - Wow! Really impressive. To me, it really answers the question about early expansion. The benefits are there to see now in your game. Never knew about the bulbing potential of Sanitation. You have potential for violent expansion on two fronts (three I suppose when you decide to put Garrim Gyr out of his misery). Hannah seems to be having trouble with the natives with all her expansion area (the barb city of Dunwich gives it away I think)!

@Imhotep - Another game in flames We'll see the spread of the Order soon I imagine. Your F6 tech screen is interesting as you have completely researched the bottom of the tech tree, leaving the top bare!

@kobo1d - The horseless horselords are on the advance and the Illians are no more. Still interested in why you haven't gone for Horseback Riding (altough I notice you have it selected as next tech). With Runes founded, are you going to chase Arete and Bambur (great early hero)?

@moverred - An almost flameless game . Lots of jungle converted to forest. Saverous is almost here. You'll be able to wage war pretty easily with him although Hannah may be racing you there. Good use of the foating eye for scouting.

@Quotey - Good start. Getting that third city up was important. Hopefully Auric hasn't built Pact of the Nilhorn as it could be problematic for you if he declares. I don't think the elves can cut away jungle so you'll need to burn your jungle and turn it to forest.

And some comparison data. Note Quotey's data is only for 150 turns, everyone else is at 250.

Spoiler :

Immac continues to power ahead but Ralph and kobo1d are making their moves. moverred is teching with the best of them and the orcs still suck majorly at just about everything

 

[Ozbenno]

Spoiler :

Well I have my troops ready to pounce on Auric. Should be a fairly quick war. After that I think I need to chase after Ethne or Hannah, the two score leaders. I want to leave Garrim to found RoK for me. As for religion, none have been founded in this game. Maybe the orcs can go all Octopus Overlords. The problem is that I have many tech needs at the moment Hunting and Sanitation being high on that list (and let's face it the orcs aren't that smart).

Let's see how we go anyway!

First turn in...



Interestingly, by building a mine on the lair, I have destroyed it . One way to get rid of the pesky barbarians.



Rantine's odds are much better over here



We take Garryvoe easily with no losses (Rantine and axemen versus warriors and scouts.)



Warfare comes in for some nice CR promotions. I choose Fishing next so I can get an exploring work boat out and about to check on Hannah.



Auric is finished a few turns later.



Garduk contains the Bone Palace

Animal Husbandry follows Fishing as we now have three pastures to build.



I decide to keep the attacks up and march on Ethe pretty much straight away.



Again, my Rantine odds are much improved. This first victory is enough to get him a CR promotion which makes him unstoppable.



The smart orcs pop a GS and build an Academy to smartness in the capital.

The double units from the warrens help out as well.



Although later on I build a settler and have no idea yet what to do with the second one

Animal Husbandry is replaced by Knowledge of the Ether for some fire.



Cahir Abbey is ours.



Hunting is next tech up.



Orcs can't build Mage Guilds, we can build adepts from the get go.



The war continues to go well for us.



I meet Cassiel.



And that pretty much concludes 300 turns. Our three city empire has expanded to nine cities.





Our economy is OK and the warring is going good, except my best axemen keep losing at high odds .



I have now cut my way through to some barb cities, so Rantine might be having some fun converting them next set. Perpentach has found Ashen Veil but that is still the only religion out there.

My plans are to destroy Ethne, convert some barb cities and then turn my eyes to Hannah. Research wise, Sailing, Octopus Overlords and Horseback Riding are all fairly important. Festivals and Way of the Wicked might be good too. On the home front, getting rid of the jungle is a task long overdue.

 

[Immaculate]

@Oz:

Spoiler :

When do the barbs decide that you are too 'civilized' for them. I thought it was a scrore-based function. You are in first place.

@VItek:

Spoiler :

The same thing happened to me with a fiery tile blocking a valley entrace playing vallendia on a creation map (its in Oz's signature) but the fire only lasted like 20 turns or so. Still... hoisted by your own petard as they say...

 

[Ozbenno]

@Oz:

Spoiler :

When do the barbs decide that you are too 'civilized' for them. I thought it was a scrore-based function. You are in first place.

Spoiler :

I'm a bit worried about that. I've never played the orcs so don't really know. The civilopedia says if you get too far ahead of the other AI, the peace weith the barbarians is broken, doesn't quantify it any further.

 

[·Imhotep·]

On the barb peace issue:

Spoiler :

The peace with the barbs ends if you have an advantage in score of half of the score of the second best leader.

 

[Quotey]

Ozbenno:

Spoiler :

Imhotep is right.. it could be in your best interests to keep Ethne alive to protect you from the barbs. At least show off For the Horde just before they desert you. I haven't found a real use for Clan's world spell other than eating through hut cash...

 

[Quotey]

Turns 150-250

Spoiler :

It's unlikely I will burn away the Jungles as fire would eat into my Forest. And by the end of this set it would be even worse!

So I start off my meeting Hannah the Irin of the Lanun:



The art team for FFH is really amazing- they did draw all the LHs right?

I don#t get a screenshot of me completing Mysticism to flesh out this report but I do start Hunting.

On turn 85 I do a bit of MM that I love Spiritual for. My first Mage Guild completes and I run a sage in te city, then switch to Pacifism meaning I'll get the Great Sage faster!

On turn 193 some big red dragon is born. Whatever:



No but really this guy is a bastard to beat up.

And- AG, I miss screenshotting hunting. You guys must be so depressed.

I do however screenshot the founding of the next city once I decide I can handle the finances without dropping the slider:



I then complet Knowledge of the Ether with a Great Sage:



I want to build the Catacomb Libarlus. It'd be quite nice to have.

I also use the useful Hawk to scout out the defences of Auric Ulvin's capital:



Unfortunately, Garduk is on a hill and has walls. 65% bonus? Oy....

Garrim Gyr's is worse:



And a SEVENTY FIVE PERCENT defence bonus. OY!!

Ethne has archers....



Oy vey is mir...

Way of the Forests is founded in Bruti! I immediatly convert and set research to Bronze Working



I get an event right after. I almost say yes just to turn the MLG concept topsy turvy



After I convert to WotF, my forests start turning into Ancient Forests, which add 1 food and 1 prod to a tile, which makes Grass Hills super powerful and Plains hills supergrasshills. It keeps the commerce penalty though.

I switch Civics to Religion, Apprenticeship and... Fend for Themselves It saves me 1gpt on Civic upkeep.

Ethne converts to the Fellowship. I don't want to give anyone adantages, but she will have to cut her ancient forests down eventually.

Then I forget to screenshot... PHILOSOPHY? Aww..... I didn't set research to Bronze Working... I do now though.

And then it ends. I'm not sur ehow much my numbers have changed. But I don't have 11 cities.

 

[PaulusIII]

I'm also joining if that's possible. Can I have a save for Kandros Fir of the Khazad?

 

[Vitek]

Spoiler :

@Vitek - Boxed in by your own fire, bummer . Might need some water mana to get out. Playing with pyre zombies can be fun. Interesting to see the Elohim and Luchirup at war, hopefully you can use this to your advantage. Also interested to see what pops out of your Planar Gate. You haven't hooked up Yggrasdil to your cities for the extra . You also have enabled Slavery civic but haven't adopted it, is it in your plans?

Stupid, stupid, stupid me. Thank you, already corrected. Although I went to build it promptly and I found out that i don't have exploration
I decided to prefer Apprenticeship for free XP. I'll adopt Slavery maybe with Sacrifice the Weak and Agriculture, when Infernal pact is researched.

Spoiler :

The same thing happened to me with a fiery tile blocking a valley entrace playing vallendia on a creation map (its in Oz's signature) but the fire only lasted like 20 turns or so. Still... hoisted by your own petard as they say...

This fire lasted about 25 turns and then ceased for few turns. Though I noticed it late and managed to get past only few units. Then it was next 30-35 turns of waiting. I was lucky too to get mage with water mana so this isn't problem anymore.

 

[Ozbenno]

I'm also joining if that's possible. Can I have a save for Kandros Fir of the Khazad?

Can do that. I'll post a save tonight.