Map Design

[ThichN]

Civ7 is great and I like the dynamics of each age. But one limitation is map design.

Here is the standard conceptual view of a map in Civ7, wherein you have 2 distinct regions: "Old World" vs "Distant Lands" (yes, you'll just see rectangles ... the point is a conceptual view).

Two distinct regions of the map, which are (at least in all of my games) arranged vertically along latitude. Even on fractal maps, which have far more interesting land masses than standard continents maps, the arrangement of global regions is vertical.

So, imagine these conceptual views:

Same as above, but flipped to be along longitude.

Old World in the center, Distant Lands surrounding, or vice versa.

A diagonal split.

Getting a bit more dynamic here, with different landmasses for both Old World and Distant Lands. This is where we get into more than global dichotomy, or we begin to assume that there are either 2 Old World or 2 Distant Land continents with Civs still not meeting each other until the 2nd age.

Just another example of the "middle region" shown above, but with a more dynamic shape.

All this is to say: Map generation needs a certain # of Open Ocean tiles between regions. I get that, and I have enjoyed this mechanic. But I hope map design shifts. We should be able to customize the age, mountains, and type of continents for both regions, or introduce 3rd and 4th regions that follow similar mechanics but are similarly cut off from the world. E.g., an "Old World" that is 2 continents, Civs on each not discovering each other until Exploration, but not considered Distant Lands.

But, let's make generation more interesting at the very least. Instead of a latitudinal split only, how about surrounding the Old World with Distant Lands? How about quite simply a longitudinal split? How about scattered distant lands that are also not connected to each other (w/maybe 2-3 civs on each)?

So on and so forth!

 

[stealth_nsk]

Yes, it was discussed already and changes to maps are coming next week are likely to incorporate non-rectangular zones (no direct confirmation, though). Current map scripts will be kept as optional for more balanced multiplayer experience.

 

[evonannoredars]

likely to incorporate non-rectangular zones (no direct confirmation, though).

Oh curious, what's the indirect source for this?

 

[Noble Zarkon]

Oh curious, what's the indirect source for this?

Update Check-In: Feb 27, 2025 | Civ VII

Read a high-level overview of what you can expect in upcoming updates for Civilization VII.

civilization.2k.com

• Renaming the existing maps to be "Start Position: Balanced," which will be the default Start Position setting for multiplayer games
• Adding a new Start Position of "Standard," where the landforms on maps are less predictable, closer to how map generation works in Civ VI

 

[ThichN]

Yes, it was discussed already and changes to maps are coming next week are likely to incorporate non-rectangular zones (no direct confirmation, though). Current map scripts will be kept as optional for more balanced multiplayer experience.

So, I'm not really speaking of the shape of landforms here. As far as I know, the shape of landforms and balancing starts are all that have been mentioned by the dev team. I'm talking about the relation of the 2 distinct zones to one another. The shape can be anything, but I'd like an option where I can adjust map settings for both worlds, and it would also be nice to have the Old World and Distant Lands have variable settings in how they are placed and function on the map. This means things like Distant Lands surrounding the Old World, or vice versa, or 2 Old World continents that cannot meet each other until the Exploration Age, etc.

 

[stealth_nsk]

So, I'm not really speaking of the shape of landforms here. As far as I know, the shape of landforms and balancing starts are all that have been mentioned by the dev team. I'm talking about the relation of the 2 distinct zones to one another. The shape can be anything, but I'd like an option where I can adjust map settings for both worlds, and it would also be nice to have the Old World and Distant Lands have variable settings in how they are placed and function on the map. This means things like Distant Lands surrounding the Old World, or vice versa, or 2 Old World continents that cannot meet each other until the Exploration Age, etc.

I'm talking about exactly the same thing - shape of the zones, not just landmasses. Yes, developers didn't mention it directly, but it's highly possible, because different shapes within zones are already implemented.

BTW, you've mentioned 2 zones, but many map scripts have 4, with island chains located between old and new worlds on both their sides as separate zones.

 

[Atlas627]

I'm talking about exactly the same thing - shape of the zones, not just landmasses. Yes, developers didn't mention it directly, but it's highly possible, because different shapes within zones are already implemented.

BTW, you've mentioned 2 zones, but many map scripts have 4, with island chains located between old and new worlds on both their sides as separate zones.

They're also talking about the positions of the zones, not just the shapes. Outer/Inner is not simply a shape change. Vertically/horizontally oriented is not simply a shape change.

 

[stealth_nsk]

They're also talking about the positions of the zones, not just the shapes. Outer/Inner is not simply a shape change. Vertically/horizontally oriented is not simply a shape change.

Yes, this part is interesting and pretty separate from the rest of the discussion.

Vertical/horizontal could be interesting even with the current map scripts, but since maps are bigger on horizontal axis, this would lead to pretty stretched zones.

Things like inner/outer clearly should be separate map scripts, not variations on existing ones, because they do too many things differently. Inner sea was a separate map script before.

 

[ThichN]

BTW, you've mentioned 2 zones, but many map scripts have 4, with island chains located between old and new worlds on both their sides as separate zones.

Those island chains are still categorized as "Distant Lands" IIRC. There are 2 zones that relate directly to gameplay; I'm considering ways in which map design (not generation), could lead way to games playing out differently.

They're also talking about the positions of the zones, not just the shapes. Outer/Inner is not simply a shape change. Vertically/horizontally oriented is not simply a shape change.

Exactly!

Things like inner/outer clearly should be separate map scripts, not variations on existing ones, because they do too many things differently. Inner sea was a separate map script before.

Sure, if that's what it takes.

When thinking of the Exploration Age as a global phenomenon (except in name), I get interested thinking about ways in which the two worlds interact with one another in the second era, and think it could lead way to more interesting modern eras, as well. The way we have it now, the worlds are placed vertically along latitude, meaning that you get an Old World and a Distant Land that stretches from north to south pole. Why not have this be far more varied on the globe? It would be fascinating if, for example, the Old World civs were in the middle on a large continent, surrounded by smaller continents that they could explore (for example) -- as opposed to "go east" or "go west."

Or how about having 4 continents, 2 within each zone, but all of which cannot meet until Exploration?

And while we're at it, we could even mention things like mountain ranged serving as barriers between zones. Perhaps impenetrable mountain ranges with deep ocean around them which become somehow accessible (or the terrain changes slightly) when the era changes.

These all would create meaningful variations in gameplay.

 

[stealth_nsk]

Those island chains are still categorized as "Distant Lands" IIRC. There are 2 zones that relate directly to gameplay; I'm considering ways in which map design (not generation), could lead way to games playing out differently.

But those island chains change how the games are played. They are unreachable from both worlds until exploration, so they provide guaranteed empty place to settle in exploration. Also they aren't always considered distant lands from resource point of view.

 

[Gedemon]

Yes, it was discussed already and changes to maps are coming next week are likely to incorporate non-rectangular zones (no direct confirmation, though). Current map scripts will be kept as optional for more balanced multiplayer experience.

I doubt that, has it would be a lot of code to change/test in a very short time.

 

[stealth_nsk]

I doubt that, has it would be a lot of code to change/test in a very short time.

My guess is that it was in the work for some time. I doubt Firaxis was happy with rectangular zones themselves, so it's possible they just were unable to release more complex version in time.

 

[Gedemon]

maybe, no trace of that in the code, and some hardcoding on a 1/2 separation east-west