Marathon Mode in Civ 7

[Australopithecine]

I am the rare unicorn that loves marathon games.

I like being able to make use of everything that the tech / civic trees unlock and don't mind playing for a week on a single game.

I see from some of the screen grabs that it is possible to adjust the game speed, so I am hoping that we still have a 'marathon' or slow game speed with a slower tech rate.

I don't think Civ 6 did this very well, and I needed to use mods to get the pace what I preferred.

Do you believe that there will still be a marathon speed, and will it be more viable than 6, taking into account the extra complications of an age system and other new features?

 

[Bonyduck Campersang]

I should think so, Ed Beach said that you can play each Age on its own, or all three in a grand campaign, which implies that each Age will be as long as an entire game, or at least there would be a mode for it

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

I am also a marathon player. I don't know if the 1/3 speed Marathon will return, but I fully expect a slower game speed.

I do think that the Age system is going to help keep the pacing on track because it rubberbands the players twice with limitations to how much you can snowball before an age transition and finite benefits from snowballing.

 

[Uberfrog]

I think the Age system will also make units more relevant for a whole era, rather than late-stage Civ 6 with your unique units being upgraded out of relevance in the blink of an eye.

 

[Disgustipated]

Marathon players unite. I love marathon. That said, I may not play it in Civ 7. Without builders, turns may get a little boring. I'll probably play my first game on epic speed or the equivalent.

 

[Jimdigriz]

Marathon only here! And yes I'm hoping for more of the same. And a bigger world too - Civ 6 felt too small.

 

[Bonyduck Campersang]

And a bigger world too - Civ 6 felt too small.

In what sense do you mean? In terms of map size, Civ6 was much bigger than Civ5

 

[Zaarin]

For my part, I'd like a speed in between Epic and Marathon. Marathon is too slow for me, but Epic is a little too fast.

 

[Leyrann]

For my part, I'd like a speed in between Epic and Marathon. Marathon is too slow for me, but Epic is a little too fast.

So 2x instead of (in addition to) 1.5x and 3x.

 

[AntSou]

In what sense do you mean? In terms of map size, Civ6 was much bigger than Civ5

This sounded weird, so I checked:

Civ 6: 106×66
Civ 5: 128×80

Is this wrong?

 

[pokiehl]

This sounded weird, so I checked:

Civ 6: 106×66
Civ 5: 128×80

Is this wrong?

You are right. Civ 6 Large and Huge are a little smaller than in Civ 5. Standard and below are a little larger than in Civ 5.

I agree, though, that despite the similar sizes, Civ 6 “feels” smaller than Civ 5. This is for three reasons:

1. Unstacked cities taking up far more space on the map
2. The wide meta encouraging far more city spam than in 5
3. The lack of visual differences between continents. Civ 5’s unique continent textures made the world feel bigger because landmasses were more distinct.

 

[Leyrann]

This sounded weird, so I checked:

Civ 6: 106×66
Civ 5: 128×80

Is this wrong?

Honestly, it's ridiculous that these are the max sizes when I'm currently playing a game of Civ 2 on 125x80.

Since then, we've had:
-Cities covering 37 tiles (center tile included) instead of 21 tiles (center tile included).
-Desert tiles becoming (more) useless, no yields instead of 1 production.
-Mountain tiles becoming useless.
-Cities being unstacked (and thus taking up more space).
-Base unit movement going from 1 to 2.
-Max civilizations going from 7 to 12, plus that 12 can be increased further in game setup.

All of which make maps feel smaller.

In order to play a game of Civ 6 that feels the same size as Civ 2 with max tiles, you'd probably need to play on something along the lines of 160x125 at the very least.

 

[Noble Zarkon]

I agree, though, that despite the similar sizes, Civ 6 “feels” smaller than Civ 5. This is for three reasons:

4. Base movement upgraded to 2.

 

[ossi]

I also love playing on Marathon speed. Let me mention two suggestions:

1) Bigger maps than standard size would be great especially for Marathon.
2) Not all game mechanics are already transfered to marathon, e.g. Machiavellis Leader bonus still gives 50 / 100 gold and not 150 / 300 as it should be. There are more examples like this. The only exception to the "times 3 rule" that I see is if the property is directed related to units, like Revolutionary Napoleons property. Here the culture per defeat should not be tripled like e.g. Gorgo in Civ6. On Marathon Gorgo was OP in Civ6.

 

[Leyrann]

2) Not all game mechanics are already transfered to marathon, e.g. Machiavellis Leader bonus still gives 50 / 100 gold and not 150 / 300 as it should be.

Does the duration of endeavours change? If it is still 15 turns at longer game speeds, it is correct that Machiavelli's bonuses do not increase.

If, however, they last 45 turns instead, the bonuses should increase.

To generalize things: If it happens every turn, or once every X turns, with X not depending on game speed, it should remain the same. If, however, it happens once per game, or happens less often on a slower game speed, it should scale. And I could genuinely see endeavours go both ways - by not letting them scale (whether that's cost, benefit or duration), you effectively add more granularity to diplomacy. And if you do it like that, you get to do three times the endeavours per age, so Machiavelli already gets three times the money per age. However, if you do let endeavour cost and length (not per-turn benefit though) scale, you then need to scale Machiavelli's income too.

And Gorgo should in fact be scaling. You get culture upon killing a unit... and units cost three times longer to build for your opponent, which means every individual turn only has one third the units available for you to kill.

 

[Leyrann]

Honestly, it's ridiculous that these are the max sizes when I'm currently playing a game of Civ 2 on 125x80.

Since then, we've had:
-Cities covering 37 tiles (center tile included) instead of 21 tiles (center tile included).
-Desert tiles becoming (more) useless, no yields instead of 1 production.
-Mountain tiles becoming useless.
-Cities being unstacked (and thus taking up more space).
-Base unit movement going from 1 to 2.
-Max civilizations going from 7 to 12, plus that 12 can be increased further in game setup.

All of which make maps feel smaller.

In order to play a game of Civ 6 that feels the same size as Civ 2 with max tiles, you'd probably need to play on something along the lines of 160x125 at the very least.

Also I can add to this:

-With Civ VII, cities use enough tiles that you actually want to space them out at max distance, contrary to Civ VI where you would prefer (near-)minimal distance.
-With the introduction of towns, an empire with the same number of settlements can feel smaller, not in optics but in management, because you're not interacting with a good number of your settlements beyond their initial development. This does not make the map feel smaller, but does make your empire feel smaller, which may make you want to expand more, which leads to essentially the same problem.


In fact, here's a suggestion: Make all maps 50% bigger in every direction (that's 2.25 times the tiles in total) at the same map size (and number of civs). Expand city radius to 4 (yes, even bigger). Increase minimum city distance to 5. Reduce the food needed to grow. Allow towns to keep growing while sending food to cities (perhaps at a reduced rate?). And rebalance the game according to the changes in yields everywhere, which are probably quite significant. While this would probably have a net result of maps feeling only slightly bigger, it would go a long way towards restoring the balance between urban and rural areas, as opposed to Civ VII's current tendency of turning things into a big urban blob.

 

[CivKirk64]

I miss my marathon speed. I'm hoping they make the "Long Ages" the default and make "new Long Ages" ridiculously drawn out , I've had it on for both of my games I feel like standard would be too quick, ending before I can finish the tech trees .


I feel like a marathon speed would feel even better with the ages, as your conflicts could feel like long slogs, where all sides hit a wall technologically ,I always hated getting my fun medieval knights marching around and oops 3 turns later there are riflemen.

I also wouldn't mind an option or change, where the crisis can be overcome. Spend enough gold, influence, send enough doctors, inquisitors, what have you; then you can "rebuild" and recover right before the age transition. There is something to the dynamic of surviving until the end of the age, but I feel like it would be a nice challenge to know that you can overcome them, earn Wildcard points or something for the transition if you can be one of the few civs that can push through to end the crisis.

I miss the bigger maps, I'm happy they should be on the way. I always like to reduce the player count so I'm free to explore the vast world. Speaking of, can we already reduce the player count on the standard map size, and I just haven't found the menu, I can't seem to find if you can choose your opponent leaders/civs.
Also can't wait for the day we have map generation options like in VI (More islands, mountains deserts, rainforests, tundra. NAV RIVERS EVERYWHERE!)

 

[Canadian Bluebeer]

Marathon only for me. I like larger maps, so want the time to explore.
I find it more fun than faster speeds.

It still doesn't feel right though. Got through antiquity in 180 turns, but that was because of other civs
on another continent. Current game was over 300 turns.

(still not sure what speeds things up, but 180 meant dark ages. umf.)

 

[ossi]

Does the duration of endeavours change? If it is still 15 turns at longer game speeds, it is correct that Machiavelli's bonuses do not increase.

If, however, they last 45 turns instead, the bonuses should increase.

To generalize things: If it happens every turn, or once every X turns, with X not depending on game speed, it should remain the same. If, however, it happens once per game, or happens less often on a slower game speed, it should scale. And I could genuinely see endeavours go both ways - by not letting them scale (whether that's cost, benefit or duration), you effectively add more granularity to diplomacy. And if you do it like that, you get to do three times the endeavours per age, so Machiavelli already gets three times the money per age. However, if you do let endeavour cost and length (not per-turn benefit though) scale, you then need to scale Machiavelli's income too.

And Gorgo should in fact be scaling. You get culture upon killing a unit... and units cost three times longer to build for your opponent, which means every individual turn only has one third the units available for you to kill.

yes, the duration is tripled and even more obvious the costs (in influence) are also tripled, so in this case its clear that it should be corrected. In general I agree with your generalization There is one Memento "The Travels of Marco Polo: +50 Gold for every 100 Tiles Explored by your Units" where I am not 100% sure. On the one hand X does not depend on the game speed but only on the exploration speed which is independent from the former. But on the other hand the total amount of Gold you can get from this Memento only depends on the map size which is a constant being independent from the game speed and so the amount should be tripled like for Isabellas natural wonders.

 

[Leyrann]

yes, the duration is tripled and even more obvious the costs (in influence) are also tripled, so in this case its clear that it should be corrected. In general I agree with your generalization There is one Memento "The Travels of Marco Polo: +50 Gold for every 100 Tiles Explored by your Units" where I am not 100% sure. On the one hand X does not depend on the game speed but only on the exploration speed which is independent from the former. But on the other hand the total amount of Gold you can get from this Memento only depends on the map size which is a constant being independent from the game speed and so the amount should be tripled like for Isabellas natural wonders.

Yeah that should be tripled. If you triple it, you can buy just as much with it as you can on normal game speed, after exploring the entire map.