Mars base mod - are these things possible?

[Molleby]

So, I was wondering whether or not not it would be possible to create a somewhat realistic Mars Base mod (or Moon Base mod). I am aware that there exists a good Mars mod, but it is a little too "fantastic" for my taste.

I want to create a Mars or Moon mod based on a believable settlement of Mars by NASA and other major space agencies in the near future. With realistic technologies, difficulties and the whole problem of logistics and communication with far away Earth. It will still be 4X, but the extermination part will be endgame material.

So, in my vision, the following things need to be included in a Mars or Moon mod;

In the beginning of the game, the outpost will have to struggle to maintain itself with oxygen, food and water, all the while conducting critical research. Is it possible to implement water and oxygen as a quantative resource like food is in vanilla? I know someone has made a fuel mod. Could this be linked with the survival of the astronauts (population) in the base, so that when the "fuel" (water, oxygen, food) runs out, people start dying?
Is it possible to prevent population growth through production of food and make it so that the food bar is only meant as a stockpile?

Since Mars is far away from Earth, a supply vessel would only visit the base once every 6 or 12 months, depending on the technology of the space agency. The supply ship will have a fixed size until larger vessels are developed. The player will have to tell Earth what they have to put into the supply vessel. Food, water, oxygen, machines, more astronauts, base modules. Late in the game, maybe even weapons.
Is it possible to create a system to order stuff from Earth and then have it arrive some 20turns or so later on your landing pad or in your base? I am thinking either through repeating events or in a entirely new system. And throw in a percentage risk of the vessel not arriving or exploding on landing or similar?

Special supply requests like laboratory modules, mining trucks, an observatory, radar systems, etc. will have to be paid for in a kind of prestige points systems. NASA is not going to throw money at a ineffective and scientifically worthless outpost. The player will have to produce results, scientifically and/or economically, in order to convince Earth to fund the expansion of his settlement.
Will it be possible to create a sort of prestige "currency" system, where the prestige is used to pay for specialty items?

 

[Tholish]

All of that is possible. One of the main logical issues with planet colonization mods is that research is based on the research slider and income of the colony, when in reality almost all new knowledge will be recieved from Earth, where the big labs are. Thus perhaps there could be two parts to the tech tree, one is reasonably priced techs that can be researched locally, about local stuff the big labs on earth don't care about. Like how to use particular local resources, fine tune your equipement to adapt to real conditions on the ground, and live in an isolated space colony. Big research might be extremely costly, but these huge techs might be granted periodically by random event (yet perhaps be untradeable, to keep you from cleaning up all the "local" techs of other civs if you get a windfall, on the basis that the home country would killify you if you told the colonists from other countries).

However, I'm not sure what you mean about the food as stockpile. You can simply raise the amount of food it takes to go up one in population. Its a tag in GlobalDefines. On Luna the main limiting factor is volatiles like carbon, hydrogen and nitrogen. What comes with the settlers can be recycled, in the form of synthetic food, but all growth will require new supplies. Immigrants would bring their own supply, maybe one additional body weight worth to be in the recycling pipeline. Oxygen is plentiful as is energy to extract it. On Mars, there are plenty of volatiles, and the main limit is energy, but solar power, while weak, is adequate, and theres always the nuclear route. Given these facts, as long as Earth can send settlers, population will grow at the rate energy sources and food (and air and water, same thing) recyclers can be built.

 

[The_J]

So, I was wondering whether or not not it would be possible to create a somewhat realistic Mars Base mod (or Moon Base mod). I am aware that there exists a good Mars mod, but it is a little too "fantastic" for my taste.

Could you please specify, what you don't like in my mod ?

Is it possible to create a system to order stuff from Earth and then have it arrive some 20turns or so later on your landing pad or in your base? I am thinking either through repeating events or in a entirely new system. And throw in a percentage risk of the vessel not arriving or exploding on landing or similar?

Look at the Dune Wars mod.
They have a system in, which allows you to buy units from the homeworld.

 

[Molleby]

Could you please specify, what you don't like in my mod ?

Your mod is very entertaining and solid, and very much in touch with the Civ experience. I have not tried it all the way through to the end game material though, but I did like it overall.

What I want is a more realistic Mars mod, in a very near future. Example: when (if) the mod reaches the stage where the various factions will have to fight each other, there will be no space marines, battle tanks or walking battlemachines. Instead there will be mounted guns on old rover vehicles and the astronauts might get a modified assault rifle or something like that. Actually one could say that I'm more looking for a simulation of a Mars colony race. Or a Lunar one. For me it should be about micromanaging a colony/base. For most people that might be a bit boring, and it might be, but most of all I'd just like to see if the Civ engine could handle it. And from what I'm reading here, it probably can.

Look at the Dune Wars mod.
They have a system in, which allows you to buy units from the homeworld.

Nice Is it possible to put a delay on the buy action, so that the unit will appear in your "capital"/main base say 10 turns after it was purchased?

Edit:
Thinks this with a machine gun on it:

 

[The_J]

Your mod is very entertaining and solid, and very much in touch with the Civ experience. I have not tried it all the way through to the end game material though, but I did like it overall.

Thanks .

What I want is a more realistic Mars mod, in a very near future. Example: when (if) the mod reaches the stage where the various factions will have to fight each other, there will be no space marines, battle tanks or walking battlemachines. Instead there will be mounted guns on old rover vehicles and the astronauts might get a modified assault rifle or something like that. Actually one could say that I'm more looking for a simulation of a Mars colony race. Or a Lunar one. For me it should be about micromanaging a colony/base. For most people that might be a bit boring, and it might be, but most of all I'd just like to see if the Civ engine could handle it. And from what I'm reading here, it probably can.

i see the idea behind your design.
Good alternative choice . -> Good luck with your idea .

Nice Is it possible to put a delay on the buy action, so that the unit will appear in your "capital"/main base say 10 turns after it was purchased?

No idea . programming wise i would say yes, but i don't know, how it's coded.

Edit:
Thinks this with a machine gun on it:

I think, Planetfall has an unit like this.

 

[phungus420]

It sounds like your idea would be more suited to a city simulator game; something like SimCity4 or the Caesar style games. You could of course completely re-write how Civ4 works and get a base building sim working, but it'll be a lot of work, and programming the AI to handle it would be very in depth and complex. That's my take on it.

At this point what you really should do is brainstorm the actual mechanics you want in your game. How things work, how a colony would be founded, what units should exist, how tings overall work, and I mean the specifics and the details of that.

 

[TC01]

With realistic technologies, difficulties and the whole problem of logistics and communication with far away Earth.

In the beginning of the game, the outpost will have to struggle to maintain itself with oxygen, food and water, all the while conducting critical research. Is it possible to implement water and oxygen as a quantative resource like food is in vanilla? I know someone has made a fuel mod. Could this be linked with the survival of the astronauts (population) in the base, so that when the "fuel" (water, oxygen, food) runs out, people start dying?

Is it possible to prevent population growth through production of food and make it so that the food bar is only meant as a stockpile?

Since Mars is far away from Earth, a supply vessel would only visit the base once every 6 or 12 months, depending on the technology of the space agency. The supply ship will have a fixed size until larger vessels are developed. The player will have to tell Earth what they have to put into the supply vessel. Food, water, oxygen, machines, more astronauts, base modules. Late in the game, maybe even weapons.

Is it possible to create a system to order stuff from Earth and then have it arrive some 20turns or so later on your landing pad or in your base? I am thinking either through repeating events or in a entirely new system. And throw in a percentage risk of the vessel not arriving or exploding on landing or similar?

Special supply requests like laboratory modules, mining trucks, an observatory, radar systems, etc. will have to be paid for in a kind of prestige points systems. NASA is not going to throw money at a ineffective and scientifically worthless outpost. The player will have to produce results, scientifically and/or economically, in order to convince Earth to fund the expansion of his settlement.

Will it be possible to create a sort of prestige "currency" system, where the prestige is used to pay for specialty items?

Actually, I was thinking Colonization might be a great platform for something like this. A lot of these features sound like things either in Colonization or things that could be done with not a lot of work.

The only issue would be the Revolution victory though, but that could be replaced with something else.

 

[The_J]

The only issue would be the Revolution victory though, but that could be replaced with something else.

Not really a problem .
I've implemented something like a revolution victory in my mod (okay, it's poorly implemented), to show a nationality feeling of the martians, because another planet would sure try to become independent from earth, i think.

 

[Molleby]

Colonization? Never played it, I guess I have to give it a go.

The "design document" that I´m working with, some 7 pages of odd notes, seems to fit nicely with CIV4, IF the above mentioned features can be implemented. So luckily it seems my brainstorm did fit with the game engine more or less, though yes, one should normally do it the other way around, check the engine and modding first, then design.

I've tried a little of the SimMars mod for SimCity 4, but they have an entirely different approach to the colonization of Mars than what I want with this mod. SimMars lacks stuff like proper research, interaction with other nations/agencies/etc., resource management like mining and production and of course the possibility of combat. SimMars is, to be frank, a city builder with a Martian skin and though thats perfectly fine, it has some severe limitations.

What I´m trying to find out right now is what kind of workload I can expect if I make this mod, since my programming skills are close to none, the AI seeming to be the core challenge.

 

[The Capo]

This has basically nothing to do with this at all really, but I got an idea from reading this. What if rather than simply sending a ship to AC for the space race victory you make a "Colonize Mars" or "Colonize the Moon" victory which, to me, seems a bit more realistic than the AC victory (I mean, you'd think something like that would happen MUCH LATER than the civ techs provide for, even the Next War techs). It could use the exact same process as the Space Race screen except there would be a larger process to it. You'd have to put together the parts for a viable colony and then put together the parts for a space ship to send the people there (or you can do it at the same time I suppose). Although I guess the Space Elevator could function as the conveyance so you'd only have to build the Mars/Moon (Moon is probably more realistic, but Mars would be more grandiose). Just throwing ideas out there, but I think it would be a lot better. Thoughts?

Sorry for threadjacking, but this just literally dawned on me.

 

[The Capo]

DP. Could a moderator delete this post please? Sorry.

 

[TC01]

Colonization? Never played it, I guess I have to give it a go.

The "design document" that I´m working with, some 7 pages of odd notes, seems to fit nicely with CIV4, IF the above mentioned features can be implemented. So luckily it seems my brainstorm did fit with the game engine more or less, though yes, one should normally do it the other way around, check the engine and modding first, then design.

What I´m trying to find out right now is what kind of workload I can expect if I make this mod, since my programming skills are close to none, the AI seeming to be the core challenge.

Well, Col and Civ 4 use the same engine- Col is essentially an official mod for Civ 4, but a lot of it is done at the exe and SDK level. (At least, I assume some of it is done in the exe, like removing the only-3-yields-per-tile block).

It probably could work with Civ, but if you want things like quantifiable resources, trading with Earth, purchasing things from Earth, etc... Colonization would probably be the easier platform to base this on.

 

[orlanth]

If you don't know much programming, it probably isn't realistic to expect to make very extensive changes to the existing game mechanics or AI. Maybe basing it off Civ4Colonization, you might edit the available yield types and specialist citizens to simulate micromanagement of a moon colony.

Along with TC01 I've made a space colonization mod of Civ4Colonization at the link in my sig; it's more of a scifi/cyberpunk setting than the realistic moon colony sim you're looking for, but if you like you'd be welcome to use this mod as a base to save time. (in fact I've been trying to upload a v0.05 update today, but for some reason its apparently not letting me.. )

 

[Molleby]

Is it possible to add plot improvements to Colonization? Other than farms and roads?

 

[TC01]

Is it possible to add plot improvements to Colonization? Other than farms and roads?

Of course. Several mods have done so.

(As I said, it's built on the Civilization 4 engine, so everything possible in terms of moddability in Civ 4 is possible there).