Marsh terrain type for BtS?

[Depravo]

One thing I always felt was missing from Civ 4 was marshland. Reclamation of waterlogged areas has always been a major preoccupation for organised societies.

Marsh terrain would overlay grassland or tundra. It might contain oil, peat or some food resource - fish or maybe eels. 'Vanilla' marsh tiles would be unimprovable, would give very limited food and trade and would boost units' defences in much the same way as forest does now, possibly augmented by Guerrilla promotions.

You couldn't clear marshes outside your cultural borders and in any case not until, say, Civil Service. Even then it would be a major undertaking.

Possibly Marsh would influence city health much the same way as Jungle - not sure about this, maybe it should only apply to marshes in the tropics.

A new terrain type at this stage isn't without precedent - this was fixed for us in one of the expansions to Civ3.

 

[thordk]

i see a problem with tiles that don't contribute anything until a rather late tech like civil service. expansion already is limited to the human player. placing cities in marsh area would slow expansion down even more since those cities won't contribute anything till the invention of said late tech. so to don't damage your civ you most likely won't expand into marshes. but the AI will. so i see marshes as something that will slow the human player down even more and give the AI a slight bonus - more cities. this will lead to even more war, and civ4 already is too war lasty.

 

[Depravo]

Not really since I'd expect marsh squares to be quite rare, and their effects to apply to the AI just as they would the player. If you felt hemmed in by them that'd be no different to finding yourself in a starting position surrounded by mountain or jungle squares. Having a terrain nearby that gives defensive benefits in the early game and good farmland later on might even be a good thing.

Construction or maybe even Priesthood in place of CS might do if people felt it was a serious problem.

 

[Watiggi]

i see a problem with tiles that don't contribute anything until a rather late tech like civil service. expansion already is limited to the human player. placing cities in marsh area would slow expansion down even more since those cities won't contribute anything till the invention of said late tech. so to don't damage your civ you most likely won't expand into marshes. but the AI will. so i see marshes as something that will slow the human player down even more and give the AI a slight bonus - more cities. this will lead to even more war, and civ4 already is too war lasty.

On the flip side, it would be cool if there were techs that allowed you to get more from the less hospitable terrains like tundra and what not. With that, the mashlands would make a nice contrast.

 

[Darwin420]

I think a marsh overlay would be a great idea! As long as it's not a common terrain, I don't see where the problem would be. Well, you might get a lot if you have a very wet world, but then you're stuck with a lot of jungle, anyway.

While we're on the subject, I think they should bring back Volcanos! Which, given the whole random event thing of BtS, seems likely.

 

[thordk]

Not really since I'd expect marsh squares to be quite rare, and their effects to apply to the AI just as they would the player. If you felt hemmed in by them that'd be no different to finding yourself in a starting position surrounded by mountain or jungle squares. Having a terrain nearby that gives defensive benefits in the early game and good farmland later on might even be a good thing.

Construction or maybe even Priesthood in place of CS might do if people felt it was a serious problem.

that's my main concern, civil service comes too late. and coupling it with one of the useful techs (construction is, priesthood is questionable, maybe for the oracle junkies ) will be a no brainer. jungle can be turned into grassland with IW, what in itself is rather useless except you don't have copper or happen to play as rome. it's costy, but you're able to get it very early. so even with lots of jungle around your starting pos you're able to beeline for IW and put down some cottages to make use of it.

i won't mind even more terrain types, but i don't see a benefit from marsh land added. would just be one more tech you'd need to make use of such types.

treating marsh land like forest would be another idea. like .5 sickness but +1 commerce or something. maybe add a peat cutter improvement with civil service that adds some more commerce and hammers to marsh tiles. this would put them to some use and another way to consider improvement/cottage/farm/etc.

 

[TobyWanKenobi]

I actually think its an interesting idea...especially if you can't improve on the tiles until late. This would make it similar to a tundra/mountain tile, but would give your workers something to do in the later game, which is what the expansion is geared towards. Plus the possibility of adding a new resource/improvements would just make the games appearance more dynamic as well.


another addition...I do think along those lines the ability to improve said tundra/mountain/iceberg tiles late in the game would be a good addition as well...possibly allowing for mines/oil wells/tunnels to be built on/through them....and the possibility of an ice cutter(is that what it's called?) naval unit to pave a travel route through the glaciers in the north and south.

 

[Depravo]

Mind, now it occurs to me it would be a bit odd if peat / food resources existed in marsh tiles that you couldn't develop till late in the game, since peat-cutting and eel husbandry don't exactly require modern technology. Perhaps you should be able to build the improvement earlier in the game without having to clear the marsh.

 

[King Flevance]

Why not marshmallow?

 

[TobyWanKenobi]

Why not marshmallow?

Thats just being rediculous!

Gumdrops!

 

[Hero]

I hated marshland in Conquests. I hope it never returns unless full CTP-style terraforming does too. Although if they do put it in, I'll just edit to give it a 0% chance of occurring.

 

[Watiggi]

Deparvo, have you played Rhye's and Fall of Civilization? There are marshlands in there, or is that mod what triggered the idea of having them in the normal game?

 

[King Flevance]

Mallow would prive another health resource as it can be used for many things such as sore throats and ulcers. So the health modifier would make sense. And it would open terrain improvement on marshes at Calender for plantations. Additionally, I would say the plantation should become an improvement that doesn't need a resource if put on a marsh and provide the tile with an additional 2-3 food and 1 commerce. Or you could open farms and quarrys (peat resource only) to marshes at that point.

Additionally, Peat could become a substitute for coal in many areas of the game.

I would say the marsh should only produce 1 food on it's own as a jungle would. Being able to be farmed (or plantation without resource) to become as good as a grassland farm or as good as a plains farm but minus 1 hammer and plus 1 commerce. Additionally, Marshes should be able to spread irrigation and always count as irrigated.

 

[Depravo]

Having peat be able to act as a stand-in for coal power stations might be a cool idea For extra health damage of course.

Marshland should only spread irrigation if it's adjacent only to FRESH water - if at all.

Deparvo, have you played Rhye's and Fall of Civilization? There are marshlands in there, or is that mod what triggered the idea of having them in the normal game?

I haven't, but I was vaguely aware modders had added it.

 

[lastdodo]

+2 happiness with environmentalism?

"rare bird" happiness resource that pops with ecology?

 

[Astax]

Tech would have to be earlier than civil for sure Math or construction sure. If u can make an aqueduct, u shoudl be able to drain a swamp!

 

[ParadigmShifter]

One thing I always felt was missing from Civ 4 was marshland. Reclamation of waterlogged areas has always been a major preoccupation for organised societies.

Marsh terrain would overlay grassland or tundra. It might contain oil, peat or some food resource - fish or maybe eels.

As long as we get hovercraft, and you get an entry in the turn log that says "My hovercraft is full of eels!"