Maryannu is no longer considered a Ranged Cavalry?

[DogeEnricoDandolo]

So I just had an interesting exchange with 100games100days about the classification of Maryannu and Saka. (this is a great channel, I really recommend it).
Since the introduction of R&F, both of these units, together with the Keshig, form a class called Ranged Cavalry. They follow the promotion table of Ranged but behave as a mixture of both classes. This has been the case for the longest amount of time.
Now, only Saka and Keshig remain as Ranged Cavalry while Maryannu is now only ranged, which means they cannot be countered by anti-cavs and do not receive production bonus from cards that boost cavalry. I tested it and can confirm. This seems to be an unintended bug that the devs introduced somewhere along NFP.

 

[RealHuhn]

Keshig, Maryannu and Saka are all part of the Ranged promotion class and receive production bonuses from policy cards like Agoge etc. It's not a bug. The Ranged Cavalry class was scrapped a long time ago because their ranged promotions always became useless after you upgraded them into cavalry units.

 

[Lord Lakely]

An exploit that is the result of a patch oversight? Lily_Lancer just wet himself in excitement.

 

[DogeEnricoDandolo]

Keshig, Maryannu and Saka are all part of the Ranged promotion class and receive production bonuses from policy cards like Agoge etc. It's not a bug. The Ranged Cavalry class was scrapped a long time ago because their ranged promotions always became useless after you upgraded them into cavalry units.

Nope, not true. Keshig and Saks are still considered ranged cavalry. They still benefit from both types of production boosting policy cards and are vulnerable to anticavs. Only Maryannu isn't.
This is still functioning up until the release of NFP. Not sure where you got the idea that the entire class is scrapped. Even Mulan right now is still considered a ranged cavalry if you read the XML file.

 

[RealHuhn]

Nope, not true. Keshig and Saks are still considered ranged cavalry. They still benefit from both types of production boosting policy cards and are vulnerable to anticavs. Only Maryannu isn't.
This is still functioning up until the release of NFP. Not sure where you got the idea that the entire class is scrapped. Even Mulan right now is still considered a ranged cavalry if you read the XML file.

Keshig and Saka both upgrade into Field Cannons (which wasn't the case in vanilla afaik) and the civilopedia in-game says they are Ranged. I've never looked at the XML files. Looks like an oversight then, yeah.

 

[DogeEnricoDandolo]

Keshig and Saka both upgrade into Field Cannons (which wasn't the case in vanilla afaik) and the civilopedia in-game says they are Ranged. I've never looked at the XML files. Looks like an oversight then, yeah.

The "Ranged" part is just their promotion tree. Saka always upgrades into Field Cannon since vanilla. Keshig also upgrades into Field Cannon when it was introduced in R&F. Saka can be captured by Genghis, both Saka and Keshig benefits from his Mongol Horde trait.

 

[UWHabs]

The "Ranged" part is just their promotion tree. Saka always upgrades into Field Cannon since vanilla. Keshig also upgrades into Field Cannon when it was introduced in R&F. Saka can be captured by Genghis, both Saka and Keshig benefits from his Mongol Horde trait.

My guess is that they wanted to give the Maryannu a bonus against barbarian spears, so they decided to simply remove the cavalry part of the unit and just make them a fast archer instead. Not sure if having them as a cavalry class is actually a bonus - I guess it's a question whether faster build with a policy card vs anti-cav units having a bonus against them is a worthwhile trade-off.

 

[blackbutterfly]

Keshig and Saks are still considered ranged cavalry. They still benefit from both types of production boosting policy cards and are vulnerable to anticavs.

So do the policies stack?

 

[Lily_Lancer]

Keshig and Saka Archer benefit from the "light and heavy cavalry +50%" production card?

 

[Lily_Lancer]

Clearly, ranged cavalries don't bonus from the cavalry +50% card.

Spoiler :

I have the cavalry+50% card slot on, so building a horseman cost me 80/(15*1.5)=4 turns,
while I don't get that +50% for Saka, so building one costs me 100/15=7 turns.

 

[DogeEnricoDandolo]

Clearly, ranged cavalries don't bonus from the cavalry +50% card.

Spoiler :

View attachment 582956

I have the cavalry+50% card slot on, so building a horseman cost me 80/(15*1.5)=4 turns,
while I don't get that +50% for Saka, so building one costs me 100/15=7 turns.

Do you have the Agoge card on at the same time? Because they don't stack, I did test this before (not last night when I discovered this) and found both types of card work for ranged cavalry.

 

[DogeEnricoDandolo]

I just tested and it is correct that the Cavalry line of policy cards doesn't work for Keshig and Saka. I swear this used to be the case. There used to be a time when I just run Maneuver as Egypt to build both Horsemen and Maryannu for an early army. For some reasons the card doesn't work for ranged cavs anymore, and also for some unknown reasons, Maryannu is no longer a ranged cav but only a ranged unit (Saka and Keshig are still ranged cavs).

 

[Lily_Lancer]

I just tested and it is correct that the Cavalry line of policy cards doesn't work for Keshig and Saka. I swear this used to be the case. There used to be a time when I just run Maneuver as Egypt to build both Horsemen and Maryannu for an early army. For some reasons the card doesn't work for ranged cavs anymore.

It never worked. Saka, Keshig or Maryannu have never been categorized as light or heavy cavalry, so they're never bonused by "light & heavy cavalry +50%" card.

 

[DogeEnricoDandolo]

It never worked. Saka, Keshig or Maryannu have never been categorized as light or heavy cavalry, so they're never bonused by "light & heavy cavalry +50%" card.

They are categorized as ranged cavalry and benefit from everything that affects cavalry. Not like this is the first time there is something in game that doesn't work as the description of the tooltip.
But it's ok, it is not like right now I have anything to prove it used to work.