Master of mana updates

[Kozar]

Does discovering sea resources work for you?
I've played a lot of hours with the new version and have not yet had a single resource discovery on water.

Thanks for reporting that. You are correct, resource discovery on water wasn't working (except for Lanun pirate improvements). I have checked in changes to fix it. Unfortunately the commit kind of breaks saves as I was working on fixing some yield calculation bugs and as a result current saves may show less yields than a new game would.

 

[lordruthermore]

One thing I liked about Orbis was that not all improvements replaced forests even for normal Civilizations.
Mines, Forts and Watermills could be built without removing the forest.
A civ with FoL religion could try to build mainly improvements that worked with forests.
Any way to do this in MoM?

 

[Kozar]

One thing I liked about Orbis was that not all improvements replaced forests even for normal Civilizations.
Mines, Forts and Watermills could be built without removing the forest.
A civ with FoL religion could try to build mainly improvements that worked with forests.
Any way to do this in MoM?

It looks like the way it is done with the elves currently is with the MaintainFeatures xml tag in their civilization infos xml file. I didn't find such a tag or anything that could be similarly used defined in the improvements or religions schema however, so while it is certainly possible to do as part of the mod, I don't see a way to add it via configuration.

 

[lordruthermore]

Orbis had a setting in the improvement xmls that did that. Improvements that didn't remove forest had that tag set respectively.

 

[Noctane]

I just noticed that my herb income is insane ( start of the game ).
It can only be the witch hut of Gereth Minar.
Loaded earliest autosave, turn 188, and it was already like that.
EDIT2 : The witch hut adds its herb income every turn. 286, next turn 289, next turn 292 and so on.
Tested deleting the witch hut, the income don't raise but stays at the inflated rate.
Tested new game, same behaviour.

As an aside, you can see the Luchuirp are miniscule, that's because they spawned on top of a dimensional portal ( gave them a settler in worldbuilder just next to it ).
And it didn't happen in this game, but sea resources were discovered, so it works.
EDIT : wait no, the clams weren't there at the start.

By the way, where is the golden age indicator ?
Can't find it.

 

[Felis catus]

I appreciate most of your updates especially interface changes. Thank you.

Just one thing...

All palaces now have a defense bonus.

Isn't 100% too much?

 

[Kozar]

I just noticed that my herb income is insane ( start of the game ).
It can only be the witch hut of Gereth Minar.
Loaded earliest autosave, turn 188, and it was already like that.
EDIT2 : The witch hut adds its herb income every turn. 286, next turn 289, next turn 292 and so on.
Tested deleting the witch hut, the income don't raise but stays at the inflated rate.
Tested new game, same behaviour.

As an aside, you can see the Luchuirp are miniscule, that's because they spawned on top of a dimensional portal ( gave them a settler in worldbuilder just next to it ).
And it didn't happen in this game, but sea resources were discovered, so it works.
EDIT : wait no, the clams weren't there at the start.

By the way, where is the golden age indicator ?
Can't find it.

Good catch on the witch hut. Definitely something I broke while trying to fix global yields. I have a fix locally, I'll try to get it out there soon.

As far as the dimensional portal, it turns out I have been looking at the starting mechanics and the AI but its been difficult to get into it, so a few civs might have to suffer until that can be fixed - I haven't noticed it being an issue in my games, but it looks like you play a different mapscript than I typically do so that could make it more of an issue. I might have something that would help, but it might take a while to fix properly.

Good question about the golden age. I'll add that to the bug list.

I appreciate most of your updates especially interface changes. Thank you.

Just one thing...

Isn't 100% too much?

It looks like that on the surface but it works out in terms of gameplay. If you play on Deity there is something like a -55% defense modifier that I think applies to attacks made by barbs and I think the AI is affected by it as well. That is why I added a tooltip that explained the defense chance after I had a high level unit get wiped out when attacked by a barb. When you get barb attackers on Deity they can have a pretty good chance to win even against a capitol. However, if you place your capitol on a hill and get a palisade you will probably be okay if you need to defend. Additional cities are basically indefensible early on though, even with good placement. It also works to prevent rushing down an AI. With as many barbs as are spawned, 100% seems to be a pretty good number, and if you are playing on a lower difficulty, a 100% defense chance is probably welcome.

 

[Noctane]

I also play on deity, and i can confirm spawning next to two orcish goblin forts is VERY difficult, and luck-based, even with the 100% defense boost.
It also indeed makes early wiping of AIs under raging barbarians a non-factor, which is really nice and was a problem in vanilla FFH, in my experience.

In an actual war, it doesn't change anything, the winning side WILL win, unless a third party gets involved.

EDIT : Does Manhunter works properly ?
I'm getting slaves very, very rarely with Manhunter V...
It feels not like 50% chance, but 5% or even less. One slave every hundred fight or so.
Note that i am not running the slavery civic, so maybe that's related.

Speaking of order of magnitude, the global enchantment Fertile Lands does not works as advertised, it does double the base chance, but each nature mana adds 2%, not 20%.

Also, this one isn't really a bug or anything like that, but...
Is there a possibility to add a dummy promotion that gets deleted after purchasing it ?
My main huntress have 3000+ experience*, and i am resorting to periodically remove dozens of promotions to keep levelling her up. ( for bard culture gain ! )
Maybe a promotion that gives a special ability : the ability to remove the promotion..?
*Hidden nationality+blood blade+blitz+mage parked in range with experience aura makes it really easy to achieve ! A great commander too, if you're lucky unlike me.

 

[Kozar]

I also play on deity, and i can confirm spawning next to two orcish goblin forts is VERY difficult, and luck-based, even with the 100% defense boost.
It also indeed makes early wiping of AIs under raging barbarians a non-factor, which is really nice and was a problem in vanilla FFH, in my experience.

In an actual war, it doesn't change anything, the winning side WILL win, unless a third party gets involved.

EDIT : Does Manhunter works properly ?
I'm getting slaves very, very rarely with Manhunter V...
It feels not like 50% chance, but 5% or even less. One slave every hundred fight or so.
Note that i am not running the slavery civic, so maybe that's related.

Speaking of order of magnitude, the global enchantment Fertile Lands does not works as advertised, it does double the base chance, but each nature mana adds 2%, not 20%.

Also, this one isn't really a bug or anything like that, but...
Is there a possibility to add a dummy promotion that gets deleted after purchasing it ?
My main huntress have 3000+ experience*, and i am resorting to periodically remove dozens of promotions to keep levelling her up. ( for bard culture gain ! )
Maybe a promotion that gives a special ability : the ability to remove the promotion..?
*Hidden nationality+blood blade+blitz+mage parked in range with experience aura makes it really easy to achieve ! A great commander too, if you're lucky unlike me.

Manhunter definitely didn't work correctly. The slavery civic would have worked and the base chance from the slavers units should have worked, but not manhunter. As far as Fertile Lands goes, yes, the math was messed up and that is fixed now.

Increasing the level is fairly easily done via code. I had already removed the level cap because the mod is supposed to not shy away from equally unbalanced mechanics so I also removed the code that made it so that levels don't get added if there are no promotions available. The changes are in and shouldn't break saves, all you need is the CvGameCoreDLL and after a combat to change the xp you should have the updated levels. I am not going to do a changelog for this one, and unlimited levels feels risky so I don't know if it will be around forever, but until then, enjoy.

 

[Noctane]

unlimited levels feels risky so I don't know if it will be around forever, but until then, enjoy.

If it does breaks something, i'll find it.
Considering i had the charismatic feat, while i don't know the exact number ( f4 screen only show "level 50+", the huntress was well beyond level 100, maybe beyond 200.
I guess the possible issue is level 255/256, eh ?
Level 65535 should never be an issue...

EDIT : Fertile lands and manhunter work as intended.

The units level-up without giving promotions, just noticed it when an adept gave me choice for a class but nothing else.
When a unit is spawn with experience, promotions can be chosen as normal, so it's during gain of experience that the issue lies.
Better to rollback that change... ( a shame, the behaviour is perfect for a maxxed out unit )

 

[Kozar]

Better to rollback that change... ( a shame, the behaviour is perfect for a maxxed out unit )

Thanks for testing it. I did end up rolling back that leveling change. I didn't want to spend a lot of time right now to make it work correctly, and as I had mentioned the level cap was already lifted. I want to rework culture farming mechanics anyway, but in order to do that I think I need to upgrade the AI so that's the priority for the time being.

 

[Gil Araujo]

Damn, i absolutely love when i come back to this site and see there's still people breathing life to this amazing mod ! I am looking forward to test those changes, they look great !

Now, i would like seize the opportunity, considering this thread is kinda booming, to ask for some help: does anybody know how can i give to windmill that +1 food on adjacent farms that groundwater well gives ? I kinda made a few changes to the improvements for myself and i just cant change this. I want to change it so groundwater well gives this bonus only to pastures, and windmill gives this bonus to farms.

Keep in mind i am just a "xml modder" (basically my skills resume on changing values on xml tags)

Thanks so much if someone is willing to help

 

[Noctane]

The improvements file is Beyond the Sword\Mods\Master of Mana\Assets\Modules\NormalModules\Xtended\XGuilds\XGUILDS_CIV4ImprovementInfos.xml
No idea what to modify for it, though...
I think it's a combination of PrereqNatureYields and bUseLSystem, but i didn't test it.

EDIT : I just noticed "adventure 'to the bitter end' added" in the event log.
It was after the fairies got destroyed by the ljo, what's that ?

 

[Kozar]

does anybody know how can i give to windmill that +1 food on adjacent farms that groundwater well gives ? I kinda made a few changes to the improvements for myself and i just cant change this. I want to change it so groundwater well gives this bonus only to pastures, and windmill gives this bonus to farms.

That does seem like something that would be applied in the XML, but as it turns out it is done in the code with hard-coded improvement types applied to specific improvements.

 

[Kozar]

EDIT : I just noticed "adventure 'to the bitter end' added" in the event log.
It was after the fairies got destroyed by the ljo, what's that ?

Its part of the epic destiny quest line that was never finished. For instance as the Mazatl you get a golden age for killing a certain number of units in the jungle. This doesn't make sense because it looks like the adventure is supposed to be for one of the two elves to kill the other - it doesn't look like it should apply to the fairies. Looking at the code it looks like it should work, so I have recorded this as a bug to look into at some point.

 

[Noctane]

This doesn't make sense because it looks like the adventure is supposed to be for one of the two elves to kill the other - it doesn't look like it should apply to the fairies.

I'm playing as the Svartalfar, and while i knew where the Ljosalfar were, i only had contact with the fairies.
I guess when the player is one of the two, weird stuff happens.

EDIT : ah, i got contact with the ljo as soon as the last city was taken, since i could see its cultural borders.
So maybe it simply means i got the adventure, not that it got fulfilled.
I'll report on any message once i destroy them i guess.

EDIT2 : I get reliable CTD when trying to use the nexus' airlift.
didn't built any obsidian gates, and have no griffon airlift building.

EDIT3 : Started new game, got "to the bitter end added" when met them.
All is well.

 

[Guru-Meditation]

I have played several games with this update, and i have to say i like the changes. Especially the improved Elven Lumbermill i really like.

Havn't had any CTD or other bugs. Turntime is also good.

Thanks for this work!

 

[Noctane]

Got another CTD, but it's not consistent.
When i cast arcane corruption in my save fighting a world war against the 9 remaining civs, it always crash.
I tested on a new world, smallest size with only 1 other civ, no problem.
These situations are extremes, so this isn't narrowing down a lot...

Also tested the airlift CTD, it's tied to the spell itself, it does it with any combinaison of the nexus/obsidian portal/griffon building.


Damn, i just can't stop playing.
This modmod is better than literally all others fantasy 4x/grand strategy out there.
When i feel a burnout, i just switch to a new civ/religion/resource focus, and it feels like a completely new game.

 

[Felis catus]

ErebusContinent doesn't make Mithril, Marble, Pearl resource and Chaos, Life, Nature, Water mana. Though resources can emerge as the game progresses, it is not seem working as intended.
And it is always creating only two unique features. 'Remnant of patria' and 'Maelstorm'

 

[Ombatur]

I'm happy to see that there is still someone keeping this mod alive. I also appreciate everything being only one download.

Trying a new game, everything seems to be working just fine.

[RESOURCES]Mining resources are no longer discovered and enabled at Artisans guild, but new ones can only be discovered with artisans guild or gunpowder.

I like that mining resources are visible wihout Artisans guild. But I feel like this makes this guild less usefull. Is it possible to make mining resources visible wihout Artisans guild but require this quild for mining resources to be used in cities, similar to how silk works with one of the other guild techs?

[PROMOTION]The blitz promotion doesn't take an extra movement point to attack

I'm not sure about this change. It seems logical but I fear it makes the blitz promotion too powerful.

ErebusContinent doesn't make Mithril, Marble, Pearl resource and Chaos, Life, Nature, Water mana. Though resources can emerge as the game progresses, it is not seem working as intended.
And it is always creating only two unique features. 'Remnant of patria' and 'Maelstorm'

That's just the way map scripts works. One needs to manually adapt the FFH2 map scripts to make them work with MoM features. Personally, I like to use the basic "MoM" mapscript. But it would be great, if there was a MoM version of the pangea map script, which is my favourite in FFH2.