Drift, we're constantly sharing the first two positions of the modpack forum!
I looked for some in-game screenshot but didn't find them. Can you post some?
I looked for some in-game screenshot but didn't find them. Can you post some?
Master of Myrror Fantasy Mod 2.0
- Thread starter Drift
- Start date
Drift
It's a boy!
@Rhye
Yep, I've noticed that too.
There are some screenshots on the first page of the thread in the second post. They are from an old version, but the visuals haven't changed much since - just some tweaking.
Yep, I've noticed that too.
There are some screenshots on the first page of the thread in the second post. They are from an old version, but the visuals haven't changed much since - just some tweaking.
Governments look tentatively OK. I'm not so sure about combining very low unit support with very low military police on Nature, but the trade bonus may well make up for that (and Essence of Nature looks good - is that new or have I just missed it?). And, after all, someone has to have the lowest military police.
Drift
It's a boy!
I'm trying to gear Nature towards a builder civ. Trade bonus helps a lot with the unit support - 2/3/6 is what was planned for life mages who were the only ones with a trade bonus this far. It's also considerably more than what Republics have in main game (1/3/4 with no military police)
Edit: Essence of Nature is undoable. It would have to be a small wonder and small wonders can't place improvements to cities.
Edit: Essence of Nature is undoable. It would have to be a small wonder and small wonders can't place improvements to cities.
The 4/8/12 support of Death mages seems "unneccessary": I don't believe that a death mage without railroads (d'oh) and with forced labor will ever get a city above size 12...
Death mages will also get the absolutely smallest economy, I suppose this is intentional?
The Crypt is a building, not a (small) wonder?
Death mages will also get the absolutely smallest economy, I suppose this is intentional?
The Crypt is a building, not a (small) wonder?
Drift
It's a boy!
@mrtn
Are you sure about the city size? I'll have to look into some savegames. Death mages will get the smallest economy. I'm not sure if it's a problem - they have several other strengths that should even it up somewhat. Crypt is a building, it has been in the mod for quite some time (Death Magic VI in the old version)
If death mages start falling behind, it's easy to tweak them further.
Are you sure about the city size? I'll have to look into some savegames. Death mages will get the smallest economy. I'm not sure if it's a problem - they have several other strengths that should even it up somewhat. Crypt is a building, it has been in the mod for quite some time (Death Magic VI in the old version)
If death mages start falling behind, it's easy to tweak them further.
oh, I didn't see them because of my firewall
Phant
ShadowStalker
In all the Beta8 games i'ved played i've never once seen any city above size 12
Drift
It's a boy!
There are some new improvements I'm adding to the next patch. All of them are high tech:
Mana Vault - +50% tax, requires Traders' Guild
Enchant Waters - increases shields in water
Trade Port - increases gold in water, requires harbor
Enchanted Grove - eliminates population pollution, requires nature node
Any objections or suggestions regarding them?
Mana Vault - +50% tax, requires Traders' Guild
Enchant Waters - increases shields in water
Trade Port - increases gold in water, requires harbor
Enchanted Grove - eliminates population pollution, requires nature node
Any objections or suggestions regarding them?
For the govs, I would be concerned as well on the low nature police rate. Would at least like to see it as a 2. Other than that, just have to give them a try and see what happens. I do like the change for Chaos to go from paid hurry up to forced. Seems more in character for them.
On the draft rates, I assume this is for if they get men for most. The only one to get draft units in general is death or will nature be added into that mix as well?
Additional improvements look good as well.
On the draft rates, I assume this is for if they get men for most. The only one to get draft units in general is death or will nature be added into that mix as well?
Additional improvements look good as well.
Drift
It's a boy!
Okay, I'll consider upping nature's military police to 2. Draft is currently just for men and the two death mage units. Giving draft to nature mages is still under consideration. I haven't had the time to think about it throught yet.
Psyringe
Scout
Governments look okay as far as I can tell. Death Mages will (as already been said) suffer from the weakest economy. Having no standard trade bonus means that they will hve difficulties building up their cities, and having problematic corruption means that they don't profit as much from expansion as life and nature mages. This is partly offset with their cheap units and their high unit support, meaning that they can build and maintain large armies even with high corruption. I'm not sure whether the AI can use their strengths effectively though.
Just thinking out loud: What would happen if you made Death government communal? Gameplay-wise this should enable Death to maintain larger empires. Roleplay-wise we could say that Death empires consist of mindless beings, being controlled by one powerful entity, so efficiency and corruption are everywhere the same no matter how far a city is from the palace ...
Regarding the new improvements:
- Mana vault: Nice addition, although mana shouldn't be a problem that late in the game (I think)
- Enchanted waters / trade port: Also nice ideas, but I'm a little worried over the balance between land and water tiles. Compared to Civ3, land tiles in MoM are weakened because MoM has no railroads. Sea tiles so far are also weakened because so far there is no way to get shields out of them, although sea cities already become powerful economical centres when you can build harbors and have goblins (for fishery). I'd give it a try, but have an eye on it.
- Enchanted grove: Good idea. In my last game I was running into pollution problems - nothing serious, as I had masses of zombieworkers running around to clean it up, but it struck me as odd that I seemingly couldn't do anything against the Pollution.
On a side-note, I started a game on a tiny map yesterday night (didn't want to start a long game before the next patch, but didn't want to wait either, as I won't have much time after the next weekend). Progress report will follow soon.
Just thinking out loud: What would happen if you made Death government communal? Gameplay-wise this should enable Death to maintain larger empires. Roleplay-wise we could say that Death empires consist of mindless beings, being controlled by one powerful entity, so efficiency and corruption are everywhere the same no matter how far a city is from the palace ...
Regarding the new improvements:
- Mana vault: Nice addition, although mana shouldn't be a problem that late in the game (I think)
- Enchanted waters / trade port: Also nice ideas, but I'm a little worried over the balance between land and water tiles. Compared to Civ3, land tiles in MoM are weakened because MoM has no railroads. Sea tiles so far are also weakened because so far there is no way to get shields out of them, although sea cities already become powerful economical centres when you can build harbors and have goblins (for fishery). I'd give it a try, but have an eye on it.
- Enchanted grove: Good idea. In my last game I was running into pollution problems - nothing serious, as I had masses of zombieworkers running around to clean it up, but it struck me as odd that I seemingly couldn't do anything against the Pollution.
On a side-note, I started a game on a tiny map yesterday night (didn't want to start a long game before the next patch, but didn't want to wait either, as I won't have much time after the next weekend). Progress report will follow soon.
azzacanth
Warlord
Drift said:
If you make that the enchanted Grove, perhaps the essense of nature could still be enchanted springs in all cities, without the pollution fixer?
Game in progress with the latest patch:
I picked Freya to give the nature types another go.
I got a good start and have 3 luxaries along with trolls and men under my control. I have two life mages as neighbors (we share a triangle for a border). Ariel and Oberic.
Ariel has 10 cities and wines. Oberic has 13 cities and no other resources. All of us have access to nodes.
Both Ariel and Oberic have a science lead on me as they have been trading with each other and also have good economies going. I was hurting early as nature does not match up well against life in unit combat early, especially after they get 3-4-1 defenders and are at a disadvantage for naval combat. So far, I have managed to keep both more or less at bay although Oberic tried a war with me at a time when I was pretty vulnerable. He had 4-2-2's, 3-4-1's and best I had was the 3-2-1 trolls and 3-3-1 Treants. I lost a couple of ships but managed to defeat 3 invasions and also crush two major incursions from his territory in the triangle. It looked as if Ariel would join him, but she stayed out of it.
I just completed Nature V, so now feel much better as I have Gnoll Rangers (3-4-2's) and Centar's (5-2-2) that I can now consider some offensive action for a change. I would like to take out Oberic, but don't share much of a border with him and Ariel is much more compact. The bad thing is I think if I declare war on one, the other will jump in and I don't think I can handle both. Will have to see about building my forces up and baiting one into attacking then get a peace and have a go at the other. Both the life mages are at ascendency I think and I have 3 techs to go before I am there as well although I have not seen much for the higher life units and several that attacked were not vets. I did seem to wipe out the cream of Oberic's military as a couple of the units were elite.
The Men still don't excite me at at all for troops. If they are supposed to be draftable, I don't see this working in my current game. The trolls on the other hand.. could be ugly, especially if I can get some corps markers. (No leaders yet).
Current economic picture:
227 econ, 81 Sci, 23 corruption, 69 Maint, 34 unit cost.
My army has 12 workers, 6 warriors, 6 ogres, 18 gnolls, 4 gnoll ranger, 27 ents, 3 sea serpents.
Lo Pan is in the game someplace, but not sure where. No one has been blown out of the game yet.
I picked Freya to give the nature types another go.
I got a good start and have 3 luxaries along with trolls and men under my control. I have two life mages as neighbors (we share a triangle for a border). Ariel and Oberic.
Ariel has 10 cities and wines. Oberic has 13 cities and no other resources. All of us have access to nodes.
Both Ariel and Oberic have a science lead on me as they have been trading with each other and also have good economies going. I was hurting early as nature does not match up well against life in unit combat early, especially after they get 3-4-1 defenders and are at a disadvantage for naval combat. So far, I have managed to keep both more or less at bay although Oberic tried a war with me at a time when I was pretty vulnerable. He had 4-2-2's, 3-4-1's and best I had was the 3-2-1 trolls and 3-3-1 Treants. I lost a couple of ships but managed to defeat 3 invasions and also crush two major incursions from his territory in the triangle. It looked as if Ariel would join him, but she stayed out of it.
I just completed Nature V, so now feel much better as I have Gnoll Rangers (3-4-2's) and Centar's (5-2-2) that I can now consider some offensive action for a change. I would like to take out Oberic, but don't share much of a border with him and Ariel is much more compact. The bad thing is I think if I declare war on one, the other will jump in and I don't think I can handle both. Will have to see about building my forces up and baiting one into attacking then get a peace and have a go at the other. Both the life mages are at ascendency I think and I have 3 techs to go before I am there as well although I have not seen much for the higher life units and several that attacked were not vets. I did seem to wipe out the cream of Oberic's military as a couple of the units were elite.
The Men still don't excite me at at all for troops. If they are supposed to be draftable, I don't see this working in my current game. The trolls on the other hand.. could be ugly, especially if I can get some corps markers. (No leaders yet).
Current economic picture:
227 econ, 81 Sci, 23 corruption, 69 Maint, 34 unit cost.
My army has 12 workers, 6 warriors, 6 ogres, 18 gnolls, 4 gnoll ranger, 27 ents, 3 sea serpents.
Lo Pan is in the game someplace, but not sure where. No one has been blown out of the game yet.
Gladi
The ignored thread killer
mrtn said:
That is incorrect, in my game as Mordja (Monarch on Huge map) I in 1550 have six cities over 12 with several other on the way. Of course I was isolated for long and had no incentives to hurry production. And let me tell that it is necessary, untill Shadow Demons you have no unit that you can attack a city without large support and no significant loses.
Drift
It's a boy!
@Psyringe
Communal corruption is something I've also considered for death mages and have been actually tempted by it. I'm not sure how it would work, but then again, that's what testing is for. It is under consideration as death mages seem to be getting a bit too short end of the stick with the new governments. What do other people think on the communal corruption?
Balance between land and sea tiles.. A good and valid point. I really wish Firaxis would've added the most simple improvement flag of all - "increases food in land squares". High tech improvements were however a bit sparse and this way, at least coast cities get a late game boost. Let's see how it goes and if the balance between land and coast doesn't feel right, they can be tweaked.
@azzacanth
Sorry, the problem is in game mechanics. I can't make a small wonder give improvements to cities - editor doesn't allow it. I'd have to make a cheap improvement with no upkeep cost, that would allow city size 2. That is a bit too clumsy.
@Klyden
Men should be draftable. Is your city at least size 7? (requirement for drafting) Their stats aren't that hot, but I hope the draft ability makes them worth it. I'll look into them though and see if I can do something else with them. I wouldn't want all race resource to be offensive/defensive, but maybe the amphibious ability would require them to be a bit more offensive after all.
Early nature didn't quite match with other mages in terms of units. Their early footmen will be in the next patch:
Beorning 3.2.1 - 25 shields
Ent 4.3.1 +1hp - 45 shields
Both upgrade to Earth Elementals. Ents are a bit expensive, but they are pretty tough too. BTW, how's the navy? Can the Drake Ships cut it against mages with specialised transports and warships? Any thoughts on the transport Pterodactyls?
Edit:
mrtn seems to like communal. Any votes from others?
@Gladi
Yup, death mages can get easily above 12. Why, in the savegame Psyringe sent me he had several cities above 20 and one at 30.
Completely another thing is whether AI has the patience to do it or does it whip its citizens on a regular basis.
Communal corruption is something I've also considered for death mages and have been actually tempted by it. I'm not sure how it would work, but then again, that's what testing is for. It is under consideration as death mages seem to be getting a bit too short end of the stick with the new governments. What do other people think on the communal corruption?
Balance between land and sea tiles.. A good and valid point. I really wish Firaxis would've added the most simple improvement flag of all - "increases food in land squares". High tech improvements were however a bit sparse and this way, at least coast cities get a late game boost. Let's see how it goes and if the balance between land and coast doesn't feel right, they can be tweaked.
@azzacanth
Sorry, the problem is in game mechanics. I can't make a small wonder give improvements to cities - editor doesn't allow it. I'd have to make a cheap improvement with no upkeep cost, that would allow city size 2. That is a bit too clumsy.
@Klyden
Men should be draftable. Is your city at least size 7? (requirement for drafting) Their stats aren't that hot, but I hope the draft ability makes them worth it. I'll look into them though and see if I can do something else with them. I wouldn't want all race resource to be offensive/defensive, but maybe the amphibious ability would require them to be a bit more offensive after all.
Early nature didn't quite match with other mages in terms of units. Their early footmen will be in the next patch:
Beorning 3.2.1 - 25 shields
Ent 4.3.1 +1hp - 45 shields
Both upgrade to Earth Elementals. Ents are a bit expensive, but they are pretty tough too. BTW, how's the navy? Can the Drake Ships cut it against mages with specialised transports and warships? Any thoughts on the transport Pterodactyls?
Edit:
mrtn seems to like communal. Any votes from others?
@Gladi
Yup, death mages can get easily above 12. Why, in the savegame Psyringe sent me he had several cities above 20 and one at 30.
Completely another thing is whether AI has the patience to do it or does it whip its citizens on a regular basis.
azzacanth
Warlord
Drift said:
Ah I misunderstood - I thought you meant the game wouldn't allow it to not be a small wonder.
Well that sucks 
I guess it would have to be a small wonder if every nature civ was to have a chance at it. Is the current essence of chaos a small wonder? I didnt bother to check.
Gladi
The ignored thread killer
Drift said:
When I invaded Rjak who was also on an island of his own he had one city of twelfe population units (he was still in first age), of course he quickly whipped it down as I destroyed his reserves, but from my experience Necromancers do not whip always, but only when they really need to speed things up.
And as Nature Spring goes you could always make three great wonders, but it is better in this case propably to give cheap improvement. At least you can get through it this way, I wanted to make a barbarian 'civ' for scenario- a palace that would give them unit-producing improvements, and they would be stuck in anarchy
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