[MoO] Master or Orion 4

[vmxa]

I did not like civ5, so never got Starships. I have not like hex games to date, but that does not mean one could not work for me. I just do not see any hex base, turn by turn working for the masses. They are going to require lager fleets and doing one ship at a time is too tedious for most I would expect.

Now I could deal with having to handle lots of ships time after time as I played lots of c3c always war on 250x250 with 31 civs. You have to move a lot units and workers in that type of game. One turn could take more than an hour.

I also was very glad the caravans was removed in civ2, hate that idea and that it was too exploitable.

Anyway I am not expecting the game of my life, just to have a game that I like and could play over a long time would be plenty for me.

 

[Rocco.40]

there is a dedicated forum now:

http://forum.masteroforion.com/

 

[Rocco.40]

this pic in hi-res is really nice, look at the detail on planet surface;

http://cdn.destructoid.com//ul/293623-/h4-noscale.jpg

 

[neilkaz]

Starlanes are far too restrictive to me and will be an absolute deal breaker for me with any 4X space game anymore.

MOO2 (and to almost the same extent MOO1) did almost everything right considering DOS based and our computers at that time. The occasional worm hole in MOO2 adds some variety and spice to the game.

Not much from MOO2 needs to be changed other than modern graphics, better AI (or tougher AI like in ICEMOD or a combo of both at the highest level of play), and of course, the ability to save ship designs from game to game.

 

[SupremacyKing2]

Starlanes are far too restrictive to me and will be an absolute deal breaker for me with any 4X space game anymore.

What if the game does not have natural star lanes but allows players to create artificial star lanes later in the game, as a way of speeding up ship travel between their worlds?

 

[Ray F]

What if the game does not have natural star lanes but allows players to create artificial star lanes later in the game, as a way of speeding up ship travel between their worlds?

Those are already in MOO1/MOO2 as Stargates.

 

[<Nexus>]

Why are you so strongly against star lanes? Just curious.

#1 Strategy
As neilkaz said Starlanes are far too restrictive. With starlanes you can move only from one stat to the nearest; you only need to amass your forces on the borders to protect your empire. Without starlanes in some occasions you had to decide witch of your systems you defend and witch ones to give up. Also, without SL-s you could enter into the heart of an enemy empire, destroy one or two of its core worlds than retreat.

#2 Canon
MoO1 and MoO2 had no SL-s. Period

Interestingly, lead design Chris Keeling replied to the comments in that article here:

http://www.pcgamer.com/wargaming-on-master-of-orion-this-is-a-passion-for-us/#comment-2075612539

Posting as "ChrisK", he said
(...)

I wonder how much of this was an honest misrepresentation in the article vs. an honest miscalculation by the devs and they realize now that tactical combat is not something they can exclude without some blowback from fans.

Either way, this is a positive turn of events.

I think they are retreating I am sure that they are trying "how far they can go".
To get the highest profit for the lowest input. This is business, no matter what they say.

was my first reaction too.
but they wouldn't be designing these detailed space ships if there is no tactical combat?
or at least, maybe tactical combat is visible but will auto-resolve?
in MOO2, tactical combat a.i. is not very good, resulting in human player advantage, so an auto battle would be more fair.
if it is a choice between a good strategic a.i. vs a good tactical a.i. then I would prefer the first option.
.

Why do we have to choose???

But if I had to choose from a bad tactical AI or no tactical combat, I would choose the bad AI and hope for some later patches/mods to fix it.

 

[SupremacyKing2]

#1 Strategy
As neilkaz said Starlanes are far too restrictive. With starlanes you can move only from one stat to the nearest; you only need to amass your forces on the borders to protect your empire. Without starlanes in some occasions you had to decide witch of your systems you defend and witch ones to give up. Also, without SL-s you could enter into the heart of an enemy empire, destroy one or two of its core worlds than retreat.

Thanks. I do like how MOO2 did it. There is indeed an interesting choice between attacking an outer world (faster to get to but less valuable target) or heading straight to an enemy inner world (takes longer to get there but if you win, it is a bigger defeat to the enemy).

 

[Rocco.40]

Allright .. so our MOO hangout got 'demoted'

 

[neilkaz]

Allright .. so our MOO hangout got 'demoted'

Anyone know any mods or staff here? This seems to be wrong since our MOO forum was active. Gal Civ also needs it's own forum I think, noting that I'd expect activity with GalCiv3 out and yes I know StarDock has forums as I was a founder for GalCiv3.

MOO really could use its own forum, especially with the many remakes(clones) coming and ICEMOD etc.

 

[Rocco.40]

These 3 seperate MOO4 boards/forums for US/EUR/ASIA already is a mini-drama in information assymetry.
Ok to seperate by language, but by region? This is the internet.

On the Asia side, four victory types and ten races already defined, on the other forums not.
http://forum.masteroforion.asia/index.php?/forum/17-master-of-orion-races/

edit: also something about pirates and that human vessel is classed a Cruiser.

 

[PhilBowles]

I chanced upon Sins of A Solar Empire also by stardock and found it very similiar to the MOO series, with the 3D GUI of MOO3 and exceptional graphics...you could actually see ships during warp mode and all the fancy phase jump graphics like in the old star wars movies...it does not incur too much micromanagement and yet still offers a great deal of control over most planatery developments.

I have to say comparing Sins to MOO seems a bit strange - it's a traditional RTS through-and-through despite the cosmetics (a starlane system actually makes sense in this game, as planets perform the function of RTS bases, which typically have these kinds of attack lanes). What it does do brilliantly - with its first small DLC - is add a 4x-like exploration element to an RTS game, and its various planetary characteristics and the ability to specialise planetary development make its worlds more varied in such features as population cap and industrial output than most MMO-inspired 4xes.

I see bits of MOO2+MOO3+C&C+DOTA in this game, and its not all that complex tho Im still trying to get used to the "non turn based" playmode.

I like it a lot, but it suffers from highly predictable AI (the ability to vary personalities helps a little, but ultimately it's a war-focused RTS and the warrior AIs just rush to their superweapon and spam superweapon fire at you if you haven't destroyed them first), and isn't a game you'll often have an opportunity to play multiplayer given the length of real-time sessions and need for more than one opponent.

If anyone has not tried it yet, please go check it out! In fact, I would have taken this as MOO4 if it wasnt called another name

The closest game on the market to MOO 4 is Distant Worlds: Universe - it's also real-time, but a 4x that very overtly takes many of its systems from MOO. MOO 4 could do worse than incorporating some of DW's features into a turn-based game.

 

[Ray F]

New article, with a Mrrshan screenshot
http://www.pcworld.com/article/2937023/master-of-orion-reboot-hands-on-a-pc-gaming-classic-dragged-into-the-modern-era.html

 

[Rocco.40]

and this one, with an Alkari screenshot:
http://thekoalition.com/2015/master-of-orion-preview-the-remake-we-deserve

 

[Ray F]

Not exactly sure what they were thinking when they drew the Mrrshan. When did a warrior race become My Little Princess?

 

[Rocco.40]

Well, she is sexy, the way you like it Ray!
LOL

For readers, ref. Ray's excellent Meklar diplomat: http://www.java-moo.com/?p=195

 

[Ray F]

Well, she is sexy, the way you like it Ray!
LOL

For readers, ref. Ray's excellent Meklar diplomat: http://www.java-moo.com/?p=195

To be perfectly honest, the illustrator's first pass at that image was decidedly much sexier. I put the kibosh on that real fast, resulting in what is obviously a thin humanoid-like veneer over hardware.

There always needs to be some humanoid characteristics to the races so that the real-world player can relate to them (i.e., who wants to consider making a treaty with a rock or a jellyfish?), but there is also a need to be alien enough to maintain in-game immersion.

 

[Rocco.40]

don't change a thing. that picture as it stands is an instant classic.

 

[Ray F]

Yeah, I thought he did a really good job of capturing the look of the Metropolis robot without simply copying it.

 

[<Nexus>]

Master of Orion did see two sequels though – but neither really lived up to the legacy and potential that started in the first game.

Errr... Is he saying, that neither Moo3, nor Moo2 was no good?!?!