Mastering immortal/deity

[Jaundis John]

Hello all.. this is my first post. I love Civ... played 5 for a while and have been playing 6 regularly since January.

I most often play as America/ Russia/ Japan. I go for Science victory on medium-large size maps and domination on smaller size maps. I have won cultural victory many times on emperor as well, and have won Religious victory on a deity duel although not a huge fan of the religious element of the game.

My main question is: on Emperor, I can win consistently, just playing a pretty standard strategy of Russia going for science. While I sometimes win on immortal and deity, more often than not there is some early game nonsense that really ruins it. The barbarians seem really over-abundant for example. It's first few turns and I have a warrior and a slinger going up against 4-5 barbarian horseman. If it's not the barbarains, its another civ with a similarly overwhelming early rush. Even if I focused all my production on units, I could not produce that many. I've read about this a little bit and it seems like there are mods that address this and smooth out the difficulty over the entire game.

Even if there is not an absurd early game attack, the Deity AI will win a cultural victory. I didn't even know it was possible to win a cultural victory so early in the game, when I have just 2 citiies.

So... any tips for elevating my game to the next level?


Thanks!

Jaundis John

 

[Japper007]

From Immortal up, the early game becomes all about the archer rush, build three Slingers from the get-go (maybe adding a Worker, Settler, second Warrior or monument in between), research Archery, upgrade them and attack the AI, then keep building and upgrading more units and keep steamrolling. The AI can't be left alone to do it's own thing until you either A)Win or B) achieve such a dominant position that they aren't a threat to you so you can focus on adifferent victory than domination. The AI gets such huge bonuses that it will probably beat you to some victory if left to it's own devises. Get good at conquering and the rest'll follow.

Beating back early rushes is a matter of terrain, fortify warriors on hills or behind rivers and let them come, use lot's of ranged units (I'd say about 3 archers to every 2 melee units). Often I like to attack the AI pre-emptively, it's a lot less effective if it's warriors are scattered everywhere than when it's knocking at the door with 5 warriors in one solid formation. Surround stragglers with your units and kill them in detail. Focused strenght beats pure numbers.

 

[Victoria]

I do not find immortal that much harder than Emperor and it is possible to win without significant violence.

Deity on the other hand is a killer. That 3rd settler has some consequences.

Often an early scout can steal 1-2 foreign settlers making a huge gain early game, and this is one trick where being on deity helps you out.
Even on Emperor, the AI seems programmed to attack you early quite often, this becomes more pressing on Deity with the lack of space
The trouble is once those cities are settled there is not much room left and they will beeline you for land even after a first wave.

The AI starting with all those benefits and now coded to build half decently with mines means you just cannot sit back and grow naturally. One of them is bound to take a few city states and a few opposition cities early and with the other benefits they become pretty unstoppable peacefully.

The only sensible thing to do is be the aggressor early while your science level is roughly equal. Producing units while they are producing monuments and granaries allows you to take out the opposition 5 early warriors fast and then you have to take their cities... fast, as many as possible. Do not think to be "nice", you are playing a computer game on its highest level, nice guys come last. The AI will quickly get to archery and walls so take a civ or 2 early, have a settler on hand to ensure the greatest chance of getting iron. With Iron the game is won as long as you puch your way to knights or even a sword rush. Without Iron you really have to try and get to musketry as fast as possible.
If all else fails a frigate rush may allow some reprieve but it is an ugly cousin to a land army. The main advantage to me of navy initially is defense. It is the only way to have a garrisoned melee unit (trireme/caravel) which makes your city walls a strong as possible... and still have a ranged land unit in the city.

 

[antimony]

On Deity if you meet two AIs early you can often convince one to get into a joint war with you against the other (trade is a bit broken now but I used that tactic a lot before the patch as well).

For science you just need a lot of cities, usually at least 15, then with campus adjacency bonuses and city state bonuses you can out tech the AIs before turn 150 (some people do it faster, of course, but I'm trying to guess the minimum speed you need to avoid an AI victory). With a Civ with infrastructure bonuses like Rome, China or Germany, you don't need quite as many cities for the same outcome.

Now to beat deity consistently with any Civ I would say the most crucial aspect is to repeat the first 50-70 turns in different maps to get used to the pacing of early expansion, eureka timing and early military rush. There are many good tips on the forums but I suspect the best players have developed their heuristics, and capacity to adapt to different circumstances, by sheer amount of games played.

 

[Priah77]

I think you really nailed it on the last part. Play the first 80~ turns over and over and take a few minutes to remember what went wrong. Generally though my strategy at deity, scout/slinger, worker, slinger, settler, worker (for this second worker, time your craftsmanship policy change to 30% builder production, then switch back to +1 production when you get foreign trade, you should be able to time it almost perfectly every game). NEVER go the god king +1 faith/gold policy, it's not worth it, you'll find another way, even if it means a quick raid on a few +faith pillage site in ancient age.

Most games, use your first 240 gold in buying an instant monument in your second city right as you found it. Make sure you sell all resources for gold until second city founded, then you want to keep cities at happy.

First city should almost always have encampment, commercial district, industrial district. Production is far more important than food early, all trade routes should likely flow into capital.

After your second worker, build troops, slingers or warriors depending on your gold situation, alternating with getting a trader (you want the +50% overflow from finishing each unit to hit your trader, if that makes sense) I usually aim for something along the lines of two warriors, four archers by turn 38 to 43ish. One these units will be built in your second city as first production item.

After you've got your little security army, you should be timing up nicely with early empire to get the bonus on building your second settler. Go invade whatever city state is nearby if no enemy civ threatening you too much - but make sure to keep one unit watching on a hill so you get some advanced warning of an invasion.

Hopefully you've gotten bronze working, if you've got nearby iron for your third city in a reasonable location, congrats, game will be a nice textbook snowball at this point - probably about 50% of games. A turn 60 to 65ish swordsman attack with oligarchy will roll through at least two or so cities of almost every civ at deity even - after that they're going to be crippled.

That should cover the first 55 turns or so. From there games tend to go every which way.

Or just archer rush which is probably easier - personally I tend to find things can go wrong way too easily if you go all out archer rush, but I do think for new level deity players it's the better bet.

 

[Victoria]

two warriors, four archers by turn 38 to 43ish.

is that enough for deity?

A turn 60 to 65ish swordsman attack with oligarchy

I'm finding the +1 culture/science/prod from Autocracy to be of more use than the +4 combat

Or just archer rush which is probably easier

Being attacked is easiest, defense is much better, if nothing else than the fact that they do not build and attack with a unit on the same turn to surprise you. You also get a eureka for being declared on. To that end I always try the scout/slinger/worker/settler routine and rarely get to settler before a declaration.

industrial district

I rarely get time

 

[antimony]

I'm finding the +1 culture/science/prod from Autocracy to be of more use than the +4 combat

If you're getting PolPhi around the time of your first invasion, the +4 could translate into savings in terms of needing one less unit... and after you conquer a few cities with districts, amenities from Classical Republic also translate in yield bonuses. I'm not saying there's no room for autocracy, but it could be a short window depending on the game?

 

[Victoria]

To be honest is all about the +1 culture. If you can get to mercenaries 2 turns earlier that's not a unit, that's an extra city.

 

[stinkubus]

The +1 yields can be very good at the time you unlock them, especially if you get Political Philosophy done fast. It can easily be +10% science and culture, but they diminish in importance as you keep expanding. I often favor Autocracy in those games where I get the first general general since the Oligarchy bonus is then overkill. Autocracy lets you expand and build units at the same time without having to sacrifice Urban Planning. As Feudalism nears you can then switch to builders. As the builders get one turn away from completing switch to unit production. Once Feudalism is unlocked you can chop a bunch of units and settlers. Two military slots ensure you can always have a +100% card slotted for overflow when chopping and the wonder bonus helps a wee bit with the Colosseum.

Many games I haven't finished a single district once Political Philosophy is complete, and Merchant Republic seems like such a waste since there's no immediate benefit.

 

[Victoria]

Once Feudalism is unlocked you can chop a bunch of units and settlers.

Feudalism is the eureka for knights, everything centres on that simple fact. Early knights = no need to chop in settlers, chop in campus instead.... every tech you delay the chop means +10 extra production and if a lot of chopping waits civil engineering it all just gets so much cheaper.
Prebuild 8 chariots with the 50% card, its peanuts, mercenaries for the upgrade if needed.

This is all why every +1/2 culture early is a godsend.

 

[Esperr]

Feudalism is the eureka for knights, everything centres on that simple fact. Early knights = no need to chop in settlers, chop in campus instead.... every tech you delay the chop means +10 extra production and if a lot of chopping waits civil engineering it all just gets so much cheaper.
Prebuild 8 chariots with the 50% card, its peanuts, mercenaries for the upgrade if needed.

This is all why every +1/2 culture early is a godsend.

I have never used knights for war except as the one melee unit to actually take the city. I have always found archer>Xbow, with either a horseman or a knight to be plenty. I don't think I like going out of the way to get military tradition(?) for the cav bonus. I also never take the one that gives you bonus yields, only the one that gives 2 econ slots.

 

[Victoria]

I used to play mixed armies... now I have my foot army early and a separate knight army that takes cities a lot faster, those early promotions and farm pillages can keep a shiny new knight army shining. With a GG it is gg earlier.

 

[Chueli]

May I ask, what do you do to get an early Great General?

Side note: Extra movement from GG + Artillery is a lot of fun

 

[Victoria]

May I ask, what do you do to get an early Great General?

It all depends on civ and difficulty and circumstance... a few examples below
Bronze working - encampment. It's cheap if you get it early. An early project is 4 turns if needed but the GG is only useful with horse/sword onward.
Greece may only need the wildcard with military tradition but the encampment gives eurekas.
Do you need a GG on prince?
Attacked early and spamming slingers may slow down or stop encampment build as with rushing horsemen.

Loons, Logistics, GG, roads and Persia all make artillery fun.