Maximum Hammers?

[Gyhth]

I was just wondering how close to maximum hammers I was in my last game. It was mostly a "just for laughs" game. Pangaea, Dual, 8 leaders.

By this time, I was just playing around and wanted to wait until I had all the techs before I took out Asoka. Only ways to victory were Conquest, Cultural and Diplomacy, but Asoka only had 1 city left by this time, and Mensa Musa was my Vassal with 2 cities, and I had control of the UN.

The city had the Iron Works, plus every Hindu building(State Religion. I think the hammers stay even after AP is obsolete?), plus Mining Co, plus Heroic Epic, Three Gorges Dam, and a Factory, so I was building Modern Armor in 1 or 2 turns, and the Internet only had 18 turns before it was built when I started it from 0 . The game was on Marathon speed.

Should I have played it any different, or did I reach optimal hammers? I know there is one tile I didn't work, but it was more of a money source than anything else.

 

[Gooblah]

Y'no, I don't think there is anything like "max hammers". You have it pretty good right there.

The best hammer city would be a city founded in the jungle, where all the tiles in the BFC are jungle. Chop 'em down, then spam Workshops everywhere. If it's on a river, add a Levee as well. Put in Ironworks, Heroic Epic, a GG Academy, and operate in Caste System and State Property.

At Pop 20, it would have at least 80 base hammers, then with the IW/HE/MA, it would get 200 hammers per military, more than enough to spit out an MA every turn.

 

[VirusMonster]

Huh, I can beat your hammers at 790 BC

 

[Airefuego]

Nice one Gyhth

Can you post a screenshot where you hover the mouse over the hammer display?

Whether this is Max Hammers for this city depends on your civics - CS for extra workshop hammer, etc... and I can't see your palace but I can see Versailles so perhaps this isn't your capital - if it was and you were running bureaucracy that would give another 50% base hammers...

 

[Polobo]

Obviously a moot point but why work the engineer (2 hammer) instead of a 1/3/9 tile.

Max hammers is basically impossible to calculate/achieve if you consider corporations as well as hammers from settled great engineers and priests (Never mind, it must be a free specialist, you have 19 pop and 19 tiles).

Hammer bonus for AP religious buildings go away once AP is obsolete, this is easy to confirm if would have scrolled down your building list.

Personally, you would have been better off farming the top-center grassland instead of workshop and placing a watermill on the tile 1SW of the city, using the extra food to support working that 20th tile.

 

[Zanttu]

This is taken from Obsolete's Insane Series, on Immortal with HC. Notice the amount of hammers is 1008 (of course there must be quite some overflow, but that's still pretty impressive IMHO).

Here's a link to the original thread: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=243033

 

[absimiliard]

There was an interesting thread on this topic a few months back, I think. (might've been longer)

If I recall rightly consensus was flatlands on rivers with workshops in state property. (I don't recall, but Caste System would be good too I would think)

-abs

 

[Gyhth]

I would post a screen shot of the information you asked for Airefuego, but to be honest, I saved over it with a Final Frontier save I only use 1 save file for all my games no matter what, simply because it makes things easier and I usually play a game of Civ in one sitting. Sorry man.

1000+ hammers is very impressive, especially with that small a population, and that's what I was wondering if I was anywhere near optimal or if I was doing something wrong. Obviously if you can get 1000+ hammers at 15 pop, I need to work a bit more on making better production cities.

 

[Polobo]

Keep in mind the 1008 hammers is for a spaceship part. Assuming the space elevator (50%), the lab (50%) and OR (25%), base hammers are considerably less. Consider overflow (maybe chopping...) as well as settled specialists (I am assuming there are more than 8 in this city, but only that many are shown) and corporations (actually, no corporations unless I mis-understand the religion/corporation area of the screen) and many of those hammers are not coming from land/population.

 

[Zanttu]

Keep in mind the 1008 hammers is for a spaceship part. Assuming the space elevator (50%), the lab (50%) and OR (25%), base hammers are considerably less. Consider overflow (maybe chopping...) as well as settled specialists (I am assuming there are more than 8 in this city, but only that many are shown) and corporations (actually, no corporations unless I mis-understand the religion/corporation area of the screen) and many of those hammers are not coming from land/population.

Very true. Chopping isn't a possibility though, Obsolete always chops every forest around his capital for early wonders. No corporations since he's running State Property. I'd say maybe half of his production comes from settled specialists, that's the idea of WE/SSE.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

There is a signifiant point that SP is NOT what you want for Max Hammers/turn [ignoring Overflow, Chopping... which would increase it even further if in one turn you chopped every tile around a city out to the greatest distance]
You want Mercantilism
That allows
+2 from an Engineer
+N from Mining Inc.
+6 from Religious buildings (Shrine, Temple, Cathedral, all AP driven)
+2 from the free Engineer from Industrial Park
and the rest to be Grassland Lumbermills or "Special" spots (Iron, etc.) [60 from normal Tiles+20 from Levees]... some can be Workshops if you have a food bonus from the others
+2 from Plains hill in city center

So with no specials
92 + N base production or Make sure you are the Japanese and have the Shale plant
285.2 + 3.1 N total generic production (Ironworks, Factory, Power Plant)

 

[PreLynMax]

"The world considers you a villian!" I've never seen that one before. Can anyone explain what that's about?

 

[spoooq]

I think its from ignoring AP decrees. I have it in my current game but its not as many as in the screenshot here.

 

[BARBEERIAN]

We shouldn't be measuring final hammers with overflow/chops. Only base hammers since it's the real measure of how productive a city is. My record for base hammers is 112 with Ramesses of Egypt and a WE/SSE capital (with Mining Inc of course).

 

[timmy827]

There is a signifiant point that SP is NOT what you want for Max Hammers/turn [ignoring Overflow, Chopping... which would increase it even further if in one turn you chopped every tile around a city out to the greatest distance]
You want Mercantilism
That allows
+2 from an Engineer
+N from Mining Inc.
+6 from Religious buildings (Shrine, Temple, Cathedral, all AP driven)
+2 from the free Engineer from Industrial Park
and the rest to be Grassland Lumbermills or "Special" spots (Iron, etc.) [60 from normal Tiles+20 from Levees]... some can be Workshops if you have a food bonus from the others
+2 from Plains hill in city center

So with no specials
92 + N base production or Make sure you are the Japanese and have the Shale plant
285.2 + 3.1 N total generic production (Ironworks, Factory, Power Plant)

I don't think this is right; SP is ideal for max hammers. I'm not going to delve into what the actual maximum would be but just examine the differences between merc and SP. Without SP the best food-sufficient hammer tiles that you can have a lot of (ignoring goodies like grassland copper, etc.) are grassland railroded lumbermills (2F3H). Disregarding that it's generally disadvantageous to leave all of those unchopped forests around to replaceable parts, with SP + Caste System you can get 2F4H workshops on those same grasslands. So in an all-grassland city that's 20 more hammers in SP. In Merc you get 2 from the free engineer + X from mining inc resources but I would expect that getting to 18 is really rare. In my last reported Epic @RBCiv I think I had 16 mining inc resources owning more than half the land and trading for a couple. Also SP gives +10% hammers in all cities, assuming you have a high base that's 7-9 more. Not much (equivalent to 2 or 3 base assuming you have +200% multipliers from forge, factory, power, ironworks) but worth mentioning.

Now of course, running Caste System at that point of the game can be hard because of Emacipation unhappy, or the UN forcing you out of either Caste or SP (or Merc for that matter). But I think it's a lot more likely than having a production city full of grass lumbermills.

 

[CivMcNut]

I've hit a few cities over base 200 hammers per turn a few times and that was usually good enough for me. Even without the heroic epic, you're spitting out most troops one every turn. If on Organized Religion you can knock out most any non-wonder building in less than 7 turns. I salute you for getting such a production powerhouse.

 

[DanF5771]

@ timmy: when comparing SP to Merc it is not only Mining Inc that pushes your base hammers but also the food corps - with Sid's Sushi you can easily get 10+ extra food which allows you to work more mines/workshops or assign Engineers/AngkorWatPriests

@CivMcNut: 200 BASE hammers??? ... wow!
is that on a huge map with like 60 extra hammers from Mining Inc & 40+ Sushi-food for all workshop cities???