[NFP] Maya city clustering hard to pull off?

[The Sentinel]

So i had to restart my maya game 7 times because every single time an ai was so close to me that at least one side of my city would be blocked off for expansion by an ai. i even tried to make a huge map with only 5 ai civs and 8 city states three times and still i ended up with an ai only 9 tiles away from my capital on all three attempts. considering how much to ai enjoys expanding in the direction of the player i just know that he will end up taking a spot within 6 tiles from my capital.
i know that civ clusters are a thing with civ6 but with how much the maya have to rely on building up their cities in a cluster i would say they should really change it so that you do not end up with a neighbor that close every single time.
i dont mind having to fight the occasional early war for land, and if this happens once every few games than it would be oke, but on a huge map with only 5 ai civs and 8 city states i would expect to have at least some room to manouver with this civ about 1/2 of the games i play.

I was wondering if anyone else is experiencing this and what other peoples opinion is on this matter.

 

[IvoryPavane]

The two games I’ve played, I had a close neighbour and ... they did not last very long.

if there a city within 6 tiles of your capital, it’s not going to last very long. Took me three UU and a warrior to take and raze the two cities who were in the way of my glorious Mayan progress (in Immortal atm)

It’s an interesting one for sure, as I’m not usually an aggressive player but I think the UU and abilities are wasted if you aren’t securing that prime real estate

 

[KayAU]

Well, I got really lucky with my start:
https://forums.civfanatics.com/thre...so-what-do-you-think-of-my-maya-start.658240/

...but I guess the average start will likely not provide this much land. As @IvoryPavane points out, though, the Maya do have the tools to remove any bothersome neighbours early, though: the combat bonus near the capital, and a very strong Archer replacement. Mayan Slingers are actually extremely capable defensive units, so surviving the early game should not be a big problem. Once your super-Archers are out, you get to decide who stays alive.

 

[The Sentinel]

i know that early wars are not that much of a problem, my problem was more with the fact that i had a neighbor so close every single time.
i am not sure why this was moved towards the strategy and tips forum because i did not ask for tip or strategy but simply asked for peoples opinion on this matter (im guessing that it is the title of this topic which was maybe not the best choice?)
like i said in my op, i have no problem with fighting an early war for territory from time to time but with a civ like this i would very much like to see an occasional start with no ai civs as neighbors.
@KayAU i would have loved to have a start like that, it looks like a fun start, while there is a city close by it is a city state that does not build new cities. did you encounter any ai civs to the east or south of you? if not than im happy to see that it is possible to have such a start.

 

[Fluphen Azine]

I just started this game as the Maya.
Obviously I scouted in the wrong direction.
A scout found me on turn 3.
As I was making my way over to the barb camp through the jungle and woods...
Another Barb Camp spawns to the NW.
As my Warrior gets close to the Barb Camp and 1st Scout...
3 Warriors say hello!
I went with scout first into Slinger, Warrior... etc etc.
I expect 20 turns of pain.

Spoiler Turn 10 Problems :

 

[The Sentinel]

@Fluphen Azine, thats rough, its fortunate that its within 6 tiles of the capital though, that combat bonus will help out a lot with the camp.

 

[Fluphen Azine]

@Fluphen Azine, thats rough, its fortunate that its within 6 tiles of the capital though, that combat bonus will help out a lot with the camp.

It just slows you down.
On turn 18 Two Horseman say Hello!!
I got free pop from a hut... what more could you want?

Spoiler Turn 18 Fun :

EDIT: LOL... Turn 20... Hello!!
They put all those Luxuries in the middle of the map with no fresh water

Spoiler Turn 20 More Fun :

@Fluphen Azine, thats rough, its fortunate that its within 6 tiles of the capital though, that combat bonus will help out a lot with the camp.

You weren't kidding.
That bonus is Strong!!

 

[The Sentinel]

pff that turn 20 screenshot... i dont envy you.

 

[Fluphen Azine]

pff that turn 20 screenshot... i dont envy you.

Like I figured 20 turns of pain.
However, I cleared the camps out in 18 turns on turn 36.
Map is goofy.
AI has a bunch of wars.
Slow Tech Map for the AI as of now.
That bonus is MONSTER for defense.

Game is all messed up and I was all over the tech path in the wrong directions.
Goofy game where I have no other continent nearby for the boost.
Detouring the Culture tree because no district boost yet.
I win but after turn 200 most likely.
Missed Classical Golden Age by 2 Era Score.
That hurt the most.

 

[KayAU]

@KayAU i would have loved to have a start like that, it looks like a fun start, while there is a city close by it is a city state that does not build new cities. did you encounter any ai civs to the east or south of you? if not than im happy to see that it is possible to have such a start.

Amanitore is a good distance to the sout-southwest. I ran into a Scout from Simon Bolivar rather early, but I have not found him yet. The map tells me he has to be far to the west. I guess he got the Scout from a goodie hut, with his movement bonus, that unit gets around fast. The city state is 3 tiles outstide my capital ring, I don't mind it at all.

 

[The Sentinel]

thanks for giving me hope @KayAU, i will keep playing my current save, i won my early wars and now have a decent amount of territory but the maya is one of those civs i know i will come back to more than a few times. it is good to know that there is a chance that i will have a save someday where i am not surrounded by opponents and will have a nice start with them.

 

[kaspergm]

So far, this is my attempt at a Maya city cluser:

Spoiler :

Those eastern cities are not going to be great, but at least they form a nice defensive line against Genghis. Starting sandwiched between Tomorys and Gengis always puts me a bit on edge, but so far no DoW from either.

I was in a race with Trajan for that last city spot for Uaxactun. I needed to use the cheesy strategy of blocking all settlable tiles to avoid him grabbing it.

Spoiler :

 

[yung.carl.jung]

I
They put all those Luxuries in the middle of the map with no fresh water

friend.. you are Maya

Those eastern cities are not going to be great

I think Uxmal looks strong. Lots of Grassland mines which are some of the best tiles in the game.

 

[Fluphen Azine]

friend.. you are Maya

So fresh water makes no difference with this Civ right?
Kinda confused with this Civ but their military bonuses seem fun.
I rolled Khmer and was working on Monty but he got walls up.
Stalled my rush up to Flight as I went back to Gunpowder and Bombards.
I've been putting Colossal Heads down so wanted Flight.
Anyways, I haven't had one Forest Fire yet so I am gonna burn this map down myself!
Kinda having an issue with production at the moment.
This is turn 145 and I am way behind but I should be able to take the Aztecs and Rome.
Most likely buy all of Kongo's Art.
Last I checked the Colombians were pulling 47 Great Scientist Points per turn!!
Guess that was just for one turn as they ran a project or won a contest.
If Meteors don't destroy this Map...
I WILL!!

Spoiler Turn 145abc :

 

[Victoria]

They key thing with Mayan clustering is to build your farms in the second ring so you can swap them between cities.
Who cares if you are -5 housing as long as you don’t lose pop.

 

[KayAU]

I just had another ridiculous Maya start.

Spoiler :

Plenty of plantation luxuries, some farmable resources plenty of space in all but one corner of the Mayan hex, and first to meet no less than 4 city states. I think this is going to be an easy one.

 

[Casualty of war]

I'm starting to wonder if Maya should build like an hourglass or a pincer and tempt the AI to forward-settle into the concavity. With that capital-proximity combat bonus, it's an easy addition to the empire. Maybe there's a capital rush tactic where you forward settle the AI?

 

[Victoria]

Maybe there's a capital rush tactic where you forward settle the AI?

I often play a forward settle game but it does need to be done early. It has 3 purposes. Firstly it Annoys them and does seem to trigger an attack as long as it is close enough and they are not at war elsewhere, secondly it is an easy target for them in reach, undefended and weak. Thirdly it is my city so I get more grievances and also could choose to have that city 1 turn off walls with other troops lurking.
Sometimes a civ needs a push to attack you and it does seem like a weak city Forward settled ticks the boxes.

 

[knighterrant81]

I think the way to play the Maya is to capture your "area" as fast as you can, any way you can. Anyone else inside your area - AI, city-state, grandma, ANYONE - they burn. Outside of your area, you can afford to be more of a jerk because you get a combat bonus inside your area. If/when you expand outside of your area, then you need to be a little more nicer. But that comes later. Meanwhile, take advantage of your UU and bonuses. Burn the heathens. Make your neighbors angry. But get your "area" locked down ASAP.

 

[Nassim]

Most of my rolls were either next to tundra or on sea side (on pangea), so half of the tiles 6 hexes from the capital were unusable... I don't know if it's because cities with different types of bias (for jungle or mountains for instance) are more likely to spawn closer to the center and I got displaced closer to the poles or the sides, or if it was just bad luck, but that was a real issue.
Finally ended up with a pretty awesome map though (low on plantations but with a nice Kili) and managed to put 8 cities around my capital. (and I'm not realizing I don't know where screenshots are saved)