Maya UHV, Emperor Mode

[harunaksu]

Hey guys,

First of all, this is a great mod. A big hug to all who have contributed to its creation.

We have so far cracked the Egyptian, Greek, Harappan, Viking, Phoenicean, Byzantine, Moors, Ethiopian, Polynesian, Congolese, Korean and Mali games in Emperor mode.

Anyhow, I've been trying the Maya game. I managed the first two UHV's. The trick was to conquer the neighbor native city of Danni Baa straight away in the 3rd turn. It seemed impossible at first, since they had 2 Holkans and a warrior at the outset and a very production-rich city. They pumped another warrior every 2 turns after the start.

I got lucky and they attacked me when I approached the city and wasted 2 Holkans. I defeated the remaining warrior with my 2 injured Holkans. So, with 2 good cities, it was possible to reach Calendar and Code of Laws, and build the Temple of Kukulkan on time.

Yet, even with the additional 3 cities, there's no freakin way to make it to Optics in time. I tried settling Labrador and reached the Greenland glaciers, yet when I met the Europeans there, I still got the conqueror's event. What exactly does the third UHV mean? Is there another way to "discover" the Europeans before they discover you? Is this game still simply undoable? Any ideas?

Peace.

 

[rmontaruli]

Well, i investigated.
This is the code that defines 3rd Mayan UHV.

def onFirstContact(iPlayer, iHasMetPlayer):

# third Maya goal: make contact with a European civilization before they have discovered America
if not pMaya.isReborn() and isPossible(iMaya, 2):
if iPlayer == iMaya or iHasMetPlayer == iMaya:
if iPlayer == iMaya and iHasMetPlayer in lCivGroups[0]: iEuropean = iHasMetPlayer
elif iHasMetPlayer == iMaya and iPlayer in lCivGroups[0]: iEuropean = iPlayer
else: return

for x in range(iWorldX):
for y in range(iWorldY):
if utils.isPlotInArea((x, y), tNorthAmericaTL, tNorthAmericaBR) or utils.isPlotInArea((x, y), tSouthCentralAmericaTL, tSouthCentralAmericaBR):
if gc.getMap().plot(x, y).isRevealed(iEuropean, False):
lose(iMaya, 2)
return

It means that no european civ must have on its map any tile of north and south america revealed.

tNorthAmericaTL = (10, 40)
tNorthAmericaBR = (37, 58)

tSouthCentralAmericaTL = (13, 3)
tSouthCentralAmericaBR = (41, 39)

So i think it is not enough to sit on Labrador and wait.
You have to sail to Europe before any caravel cross Atlantic Ocean.
IMHO it is harder than conquer Danni Baa on turn 3.

 

[harunaksu]

Hello rmontaruli,

Cheers and thanks for taking the time for the thorough explanation, friend. I guess then it's impossible with these conditions.

Well, sometimes you just have to contend with a humble 2/3 and move on, huh?

Peace... That never ever comes...

 

[rmontaruli]

I think that all UHV should be in some way doable at easiest difficulty.
The last condition can be modified removing all ocean tiles from American areas, becouse such rectangle
tNorthAmericaTL = (10, 40)
tNorthAmericaBR = (37, 58)
involves a lot of sea reveleable from Ponta Delgada.

Otherwise we can ask Leoreth to change third Mayan UHV in something like to kill some european units.

 

[star15389]

It is possible to do it on Regent. Three tricks. One is to research, in order, Sailing-Mathematics-Calendar-Bronze Working-Alphabet-Iron Working and only then research Code of Laws. If you do it in this order you can bulb Compass with a GS, shaving about ten turns off your time. If you go straight for CoL your GS will uselessly bulb Philosophy so delay it as long as possible. If you prechop all the forests near Danni Baa you can build the Temple of Kukulkan with a few turns to spare. Second is build as many Old World wonders as possible. The AI usually fails to build The Great Lighthouse or the Colossus, but you can and should! They generate commerce and almost as importantly GM points. Settle (in addition to Havana) on Cartagena des Indias, and send the Merchant to Cuzco. With four cities working at 100% science you can research Optics only a few turns later than the Spanish. Third and most important, once you do get your Caravel out DO NOT send it to Spain. Izzy beelines Astronomy and will probably have already revealed some of America. Send it to England or Vikings. As long as you meet them and not Spain you will win the UHV

 

[DwarfMurdered]

I believe Maya is now completely impossible. After two days of trying, I finally managed to get the first two goals (holy hell is that hard), but trying to get caravels before the Europeans is essentially impossible now, especially with the tech tree as it is. Thirdly, the first people that met me were the damn Chinese. I managed to save and reload enough times that I got them to spawn in a position I could temporarily hold them off from, and they managed to collapse right before they could attack Yux Matal. Despite this, and running as many scientists as possible and trying to scrounge up as much currency as I could with four cities, three in the core, I didn't even come close to reaching Cartography. At first I thought Compass was all that was necessary, and then I tore my eyes out when apparently Cogs and such cannot enter ocean even with compass, only capes it seems (that tooltip is poorly worded).

So simply put, after two days of work, I think the Mayan UHV is probably impossible.

 

[Steb]

Try it with my Mesoamerica mod, in which an earlier spawn date for the Maya gives you just enough time!

In the base mod I indeed think it is impossible.

 

[pippo84]

so, i started with 2 indi Holkan just out of my border and 2 Archer in the city on the stone.
if try to take the city, i lose due to archer abilities... if try to train holkan, there will be more archers...
moreover, there are continuosly spawns of barbarian holkan....

how it's possible to take stone in time for the Temple and the second UHV?!?!?!?

 

[Jarlaxe Baenre]

so, i started with 2 indi Holkan just out of my border and 2 Archer in the city on the stone.
if try to take the city, i lose due to archer abilities... if try to train holkan, there will be more archers...
moreover, there are continuosly spawns of barbarian holkan....

how it's possible to take stone in time for the Temple and the second UHV?!?!?!?

Usually, the barbarians attack the city after ~5-10 turns, after that other one gets founded north of it.

Decent odds if you hold off until the barbarians have weakened it.

 

[pippo84]

eventually I managed the 1 and 2 UHV... i've tried and reload a lot of time, but i did it.
(catapult and 5 holkan) K.Temple and MacchuPicchu in my capital city. Own 4 cities (Capital, Stone, NorthYukatan - cuba coffee - and one in the South river for gold and corn)

i've already gone through labrador cape after Compass
now, the only way to get to europe is by Caravel? because of the ocean tile in front of ice tile in Groenland ?!?

 

[pippo84]

eventually I managed the 1 and 2 UHV... i've tried and reload a lot of time, but i did it.
(catapult and 5 holkan) K.Temple and MacchuPicchu in my capital city. Own 4 cities (Capital, Stone, NorthYukatan - cuba coffee - and one in the South river for gold and corn)

i've already gone through labrador cape after Compass
now, the only way to get to europe is by Caravel? because of the ocean tile in front of ice tile in Groenland ?!?

I did It. with Caravel to Portugal...
it needed a lot of re-load game, but eventually i did it.
the key was to have Hanging Gardes: managing the farms between other cities, I had 4 cities with 8+ citizens and my research points grow up.

 

[Publicola]

@Leoreth, the consensus seems to be that the Mayan UHV is borderline impossible (#1 and #2 require save-scumming to conquer a city by turn 3, #3 requires meta-gaming to an absurd degree to not only make first contact with Europe, but to do so before any European civ makes any tile of the Americas visible).

Any chance you could adjust things -- make their starting stack a bit stronger (so conquering Danni Baa is feasible so early in the game) or modify their tech rate so reaching Compass isn't impossible?