OK, "got it".
mb2-a space oddity
- Thread starter mad-bax
- Start date
Pre-turn:
Wow, we are in good shape! I will change the towns that are on spearman production to rax, we want those vet units! IW is available from the ottoman for HBR and 87 gold. The others are broke though, so we can't broker and we might not want Osman to have Horsemen just yet. Teds' dotmap wasn't used, so I have to adapt the city-sites a bit, no real problem.
1450BC - turn 1:
Decide to move the furthest settler pair even more to the next site and the fresh pair will settle the spot the first where on.
MM Mecca to grow 1 turn earlier.
IT: Osman offers IW for HBR and 120g, I tell him no. Not good for relations, but we'll have business later.
He is still Polite.
1425BC - turn 2:
Mecca settler -> Barracks, this will allow it to grow a bit, could be changed to Temple by the next
player.
Oops, the scout runs in to a barb, he'll get killed next turn. Got to say, they do irritate
.
IT: Barb kills our scout
1400BC - turn 3:
Bagdad settler -> warrior
Move some troops around to be able to escort the settlers.No news on the diplo front. India sent two warriors to the barb camp.
IT : Nada
1375BC - turn 4:
Aden founded -> worker
MM around Mecca and Najran
No news on the diplo front, other than Osman is a bit richer, has probably taken out the barb hut.
IT: Zzz
1350BC - turn 5:
Medina settler -> Pyramids! (maybe pre-build, can be switched)
Anjar worker -> Barracks
Yamama founded -> Colossus! (maybe pre-build, can be switched)
IT: We get the FP message!
1325BC - turn 6:
Zzzz
IT: Nada
1300BC - turn 7:
Only worker action
No news on the diplo front, except Gandhi is being polite now.
IT: Osman starts the Oracle, so he's got Myst. It's a pity the others are so very slow maybe we should feed them a bit.
1275BC - turn 8:
Baghdad warrior -> Temple to be able to reel in the third furs, may be vetoed
Moving the three settler pairs and worker action
Diplo, no news, IW price has not gone up yet.
IT: Nada
1250BC - turn 9:
Najran Barracks -> Horseman
IT: Nada
1225BC - turn 10:
Mecca Barracks -> Horseman
The deal with Osman is still on, we can discuss it before the next player takes it. We probably need to feed at least Babylon, we need them to do our research. I've noticed before the general research speed is influence by the humans actions. If we want them to research we need to tickle them.
Here are the keys to our great nation. Enjoy.
Wow, we are in good shape! I will change the towns that are on spearman production to rax, we want those vet units! IW is available from the ottoman for HBR and 87 gold. The others are broke though, so we can't broker and we might not want Osman to have Horsemen just yet. Teds' dotmap wasn't used, so I have to adapt the city-sites a bit, no real problem.
1450BC - turn 1:
Decide to move the furthest settler pair even more to the next site and the fresh pair will settle the spot the first where on.
MM Mecca to grow 1 turn earlier.
IT: Osman offers IW for HBR and 120g, I tell him no. Not good for relations, but we'll have business later.
He is still Polite.1425BC - turn 2:
Mecca settler -> Barracks, this will allow it to grow a bit, could be changed to Temple by the next
player.
Oops, the scout runs in to a barb, he'll get killed next turn. Got to say, they do irritate
.IT: Barb kills our scout
1400BC - turn 3:
Bagdad settler -> warrior
Move some troops around to be able to escort the settlers.No news on the diplo front. India sent two warriors to the barb camp.
IT : Nada
1375BC - turn 4:
Aden founded -> worker
MM around Mecca and Najran
No news on the diplo front, other than Osman is a bit richer, has probably taken out the barb hut.
IT: Zzz
1350BC - turn 5:
Medina settler -> Pyramids! (maybe pre-build, can be switched)
Anjar worker -> Barracks
Yamama founded -> Colossus! (maybe pre-build, can be switched)
IT: We get the FP message!
1325BC - turn 6:
Zzzz
IT: Nada
1300BC - turn 7:
Only worker action
No news on the diplo front, except Gandhi is being polite now.
IT: Osman starts the Oracle, so he's got Myst. It's a pity the others are so very slow maybe we should feed them a bit.
1275BC - turn 8:
Baghdad warrior -> Temple to be able to reel in the third furs, may be vetoed
Moving the three settler pairs and worker action
Diplo, no news, IW price has not gone up yet.
IT: Nada
1250BC - turn 9:
Najran Barracks -> Horseman
IT: Nada
1225BC - turn 10:
Mecca Barracks -> Horseman
The deal with Osman is still on, we can discuss it before the next player takes it. We probably need to feed at least Babylon, we need them to do our research. I've noticed before the general research speed is influence by the humans actions. If we want them to research we need to tickle them.
Here are the keys to our great nation. Enjoy.
So, let's throw in a discussion:
a. should we make the IW - HBR deal now?
b. when we do, should we gift HBR to the others AI known by us, to encourage them to research something else? (they are both wothout money at the moment)
a. should we make the IW - HBR deal now?
b. when we do, should we gift HBR to the others AI known by us, to encourage them to research something else? (they are both wothout money at the moment)
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It's strange that we are not researching at all and yet we are considering gifting techs to the AI so they can keep up! But yes, I think we have to do what you say Space. I think Map making is our goal now as it would be nice to have more contacts before ridding the island of our neighbours. Gifting HBR to them will bring that closer.
mad-bax UP
Ted ON DECK
I will play tonight. 2 SG's in one day. Yikes!
mad-bax UP
Ted ON DECK
I will play tonight. 2 SG's in one day. Yikes!
Hooray
Civ3 Cartographer
I definitely think we should do the IW trade. If that means we have to gift HBR, then so be it. We definitely don't want to keep techs away from the AI. Us having a tech lowers its price and makes the AI more likely to research it, which would be useless for us since we all ready have it.
This is insane. I expected us to be feeding off of old obselete techs from the AI. This variant is turning out much better than I had hoped.
This is insane. I expected us to be feeding off of old obselete techs from the AI. This variant is turning out much better than I had hoped.
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- Messages
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It really is wierd. It could change my whole attitude towards techs.
Look at how much gold we have at 1225BC. We could be upgrading 100+ horses to knights when we get Chivalry!
I too think the trade should be made. Will we be paying monopoly prices or do any of the other known civs have IW too?
Look at how much gold we have at 1225BC. We could be upgrading 100+ horses to knights when we get Chivalry!
I too think the trade should be made. Will we be paying monopoly prices or do any of the other known civs have IW too?
No one has it but the Ottoman. The deal is IW for HBR + 87 gold. And its early days yet, guys. Because the other 2 are so poor no trades are made. It could be different if the ones we don't know are trading happily.
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So that means that we can gift either IW or HBR or both to the other civs.
I would gift one of them for the attitude benefit and then test each turn for when workers become available and sell the other for workers if possible.
I think keeping all the civs on our island at tech parity is important to keep research up until we make other contacts. Then we can decide who to take out and when. It's a pity that the Ottomans (Scientific) are are neighbours. Taking them out first could be a bad play.
As Space says, we don't know how the other unknown Civs are doing, and we want to keep up with them.
I would gift one of them for the attitude benefit and then test each turn for when workers become available and sell the other for workers if possible.
I think keeping all the civs on our island at tech parity is important to keep research up until we make other contacts. Then we can decide who to take out and when. It's a pity that the Ottomans (Scientific) are are neighbours. Taking them out first could be a bad play.
As Space says, we don't know how the other unknown Civs are doing, and we want to keep up with them.
vbraun
Raytracing
I think we should do the trade.
Hooray
Civ3 Cartographer
It won't be so bad taking out the Scientific Ottomans, mad-bax. Remember, we also have contact with the Scientific Babylonians.
Somehow I doubt the other civs could be researching at a pace too different from the ones we know. If anything, the civs we know should be researching faster than the ones we don't, IMO. This being an Archipelago map, the others may be more isolated.
I almost always try to do my own research, but this game could definitely change the way I think about research.
Somehow I doubt the other civs could be researching at a pace too different from the ones we know. If anything, the civs we know should be researching faster than the ones we don't, IMO. This being an Archipelago map, the others may be more isolated.
I almost always try to do my own research, but this game could definitely change the way I think about research.
Right, this is archipelago..., I forgot. Its easy to forget when you look at our continent. We could be in for a long slow ride... 
Like I said, lets tickle them into motion:
Like I said, lets tickle them into motion:
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I'm going to post my turn log tomorrow, because I am supposed to be rebuilding my PC tonight 
Just as a summary it went something like this...
Bought IW from the Ottomans
Bought Writing from the Indians
Gifted everyone HBR
No-one researched anything else during my turns.
I think we are going to have to give away all our techs.
We have so much military it's embarrasing as we can't use it b4 MM, and we are running out of good land to settle, though there is always the Tundra and the desert
Since we are going to get no culture from Unis and libraries I built a temple (yippidee dooh dah). I think we should build a few more just to get cultural expansion and keep the lux slider down.
The Oracle and the Collosus were built during my turns, but not by us. The town building Collosus was switched to Palace, and can be changed whenever... probably lighthouse when we get MM.
Ted's UP and here is the save.
We're on 10 turns a go now.
Just as a summary it went something like this...
Bought IW from the Ottomans
Bought Writing from the Indians
Gifted everyone HBR
No-one researched anything else during my turns.
I think we are going to have to give away all our techs.
We have so much military it's embarrasing as we can't use it b4 MM, and we are running out of good land to settle, though there is always the Tundra and the desert
Since we are going to get no culture from Unis and libraries I built a temple (yippidee dooh dah). I think we should build a few more just to get cultural expansion and keep the lux slider down.
The Oracle and the Collosus were built during my turns, but not by us. The town building Collosus was switched to Palace, and can be changed whenever... probably lighthouse when we get MM.
Ted's UP and here is the save.
We're on 10 turns a go now.
Should I have played 20 turns? If so, sorry about that.
I've looked at the save and it seems to me we need to sell writing, at least, maybe one of them will research literature. We need some backup science to be able to cascade and they might research quick enough to keep up with our cash.
Maybe it's an idea to establish embassies just to see how far they are with the Pyramids and make plans accordingly.
I've looked at the save and it seems to me we need to sell writing, at least, maybe one of them will research literature. We need some backup science to be able to cascade and they might research quick enough to keep up with our cash
.Maybe it's an idea to establish embassies just to see how far they are with the Pyramids and make plans accordingly.
Hooray
Civ3 Cartographer
Of course we should build temples. We're religious, so we get them cheap anyway.
At least we'll save money from not having to pay upkeep for Libraries and Universities.
Lighthouse would be a nice wonder to get. It'll certainly help our galleys find the other civs sooner.
At least we'll save money from not having to pay upkeep for Libraries and Universities.
Lighthouse would be a nice wonder to get. It'll certainly help our galleys find the other civs sooner.
TedJackson
Cunning old Celt
Ted
- Joined
- Jan 24, 2003
- Messages
- 5,242
1225: Pre-turn
Trade Ottoman IW for HBR + 87g
Trade Indian Writing for HBR + Myst
Sell Ottomans contact with Indians for 145g
Give Babylonians HBR
1200: Damascus - Worker
1175: Worker turns
1150: Worker turns
1125: Mecca - Horse
Found Muscat - Worker
Found Mansura - Worker
1100: Basra - Horse
Fustat - Horse
Najran - Horse
Barb to NE
1075: Warrior kills Barb
Indians begin Colossus
1050: Mecca - Spear
Kufah - Horse
Basra,Fustat, Najran and Kufah - Change to Spear
Upgrade 6 Warriors to swords (including conscript -
)
1025: Found Bukhara - Worker
Baghdad - Spear
Damascus - Settler
Lux slider up
1000BC: Barb attacks but is killed by sword
Narjan - Horse
975: Mecca - Spear
Aden - Warrior
950: Basra - Horse
925: Kufah - Horse
900: Mecca - Horse
Khurasan - Spear
Muscat - Spear
Mansura - Warrior
875: Damascus - Spear
Baghdad - rax
Aden - Warrior
Korea complete Oracle
850: Najran - Horse
825: Mecca Temple (getting a bit big)
800: Hire Entertainer in Khurian for one turn (waiting for second garrison unit)
Bukihara - Spear
750: Mecca - Horse
Damascus - rax
Babylon complete Colossus
Yamama change production to PALACE
730: EOT
Note to next player. The save has all the worker turns done, but requires a decision about a settler. You can settle where he is now or move him somewhere else.
General. Once we had Iron hooked up I built spears so we could upgrade the warriors nad send them south. Amazingly there is land to settle, but I have turned down settler production. Maybe it's time to start getting the worker ratio right. We'll need quite a lot later as there is a lot of jungle to the south. The FP could go in the middle of that jungle maybe.
I started sending units south in preparation for the first war, which we could easily start right now.
This really is a wierd game.
Trade Ottoman IW for HBR + 87g
Trade Indian Writing for HBR + Myst
Sell Ottomans contact with Indians for 145g
Give Babylonians HBR
1200: Damascus - Worker
1175: Worker turns
1150: Worker turns
1125: Mecca - Horse
Found Muscat - Worker
Found Mansura - Worker
1100: Basra - Horse
Fustat - Horse
Najran - Horse
Barb to NE
1075: Warrior kills Barb
Indians begin Colossus
1050: Mecca - Spear
Kufah - Horse
Basra,Fustat, Najran and Kufah - Change to Spear
Upgrade 6 Warriors to swords (including conscript -
)1025: Found Bukhara - Worker
Baghdad - Spear
Damascus - Settler
Lux slider up
1000BC: Barb attacks but is killed by sword
Narjan - Horse
975: Mecca - Spear
Aden - Warrior
950: Basra - Horse
925: Kufah - Horse
900: Mecca - Horse
Khurasan - Spear
Muscat - Spear
Mansura - Warrior
875: Damascus - Spear
Baghdad - rax
Aden - Warrior
Korea complete Oracle
850: Najran - Horse
825: Mecca Temple (getting a bit big)
800: Hire Entertainer in Khurian for one turn (waiting for second garrison unit)
Bukihara - Spear
750: Mecca - Horse
Damascus - rax
Babylon complete Colossus
Yamama change production to PALACE
730: EOT
Note to next player. The save has all the worker turns done, but requires a decision about a settler. You can settle where he is now or move him somewhere else.
General. Once we had Iron hooked up I built spears so we could upgrade the warriors nad send them south. Amazingly there is land to settle, but I have turned down settler production. Maybe it's time to start getting the worker ratio right. We'll need quite a lot later as there is a lot of jungle to the south. The FP could go in the middle of that jungle maybe.
I started sending units south in preparation for the first war, which we could easily start right now.
This really is a wierd game.
TedJackson
Cunning old Celt
Pre-flight checks OK 
Pre-turn
Mecca switches to worker (we need more workers)
Aleppo founded - Barracks (Attack launch point)
IBT
Najran Horse - Worker
Kufah Horse - Worker
1 - 710BC
Troops move toward Ottoman border
Workers ready themselves for roading
Our Scout heads SW to coast
Trade situation is unchanged
IBT
Scout killed by barbs
Mecca Worker - Worker (MM Mecca for Worker every 2 turns)
Basra Horse - Temple
2 - 690BC
Business as Usual
Trade unchanged
IBT
Najran Worker - Worker
3 - 670BC
Vet horse dispatches barb Horse NE of Kufah
Trade unchanged
IBT
Mecca Worker - Worker
Kufah Worker - Sword
Fustat Horse - Temple
Mansura Warrior - Worker
4 - 650BC
Troops move
Workers work
Trade unchanged
IBT
Baghdad Barracks - Sword
Najran Worker - Temple
Khurasan Spear - Spear
Aden Spear - Worker (zero growth)
5 - 630BC
Upgrade 3 Warriors
Move troops
Workers work
IBT
Mecca Worker - Worker
Damascus Barracks - Sword
6 - 610BC
Upgrade Warrior (Damascus)
Troops move
Workers work
Trade unchanged
IBT
Aden Worker - Temple
7 - 590BC
Upgrade 2 Warriors
Troops move
Workers work
Babylon has Map Making for 615gp
We buy Map Making + WM from Babylon for IW + 429gp
Sell WM to India for WM, TM + 140gp
Sell WM to Ottoman for WM, TM + 79gp
Sell WM to Babylon for 196gp
Yamama switches to Great Lighthouse
Najran switches to Galley and whips
Anjar switches to Galley (wasting 2 shields)
IBT
Mecca Worker - Settler
Narjan Galley - Galley
Anjar Galley - Galley
Babylon completes the Pyramids
8 - 570BC
Medina switches to FP - wasting 64 shields
Troops move
Workers work
Buy slave from India for 100gp
Sell WM to Ottoman for WM, TM + 1gp
Sell WM to India for WM, TM + 2gp
IBT
Medina FP - Barracks
Bukhara Spear - Barracks
Babylon starts Great Lighthouse
9 - 550BC
Fez founded - Spear
Troops move
Workers work
Sell WM to Babylon for WM, TM + 3gp
Sell WM to India for WM, TM + 3gp
Sell WM to Ottoman for WM, TM + 1gp
IBT
Damascus Sword - Sword
Fustat Temple - Horse
10 - 530BC
Contact Greece (cautious) - we are up Map Making & HBR
Sell WM to Greece for WM, TM + 37gp
Sell WM to Babylon for WM, TM + 73gp
Sell WM to India for WM, TM + 78gp
Buy Polytheism, WM + Worker from Ottoman for WM, Writing + 423gp
Sell HBR to Greece for WM, TM + 164gp
Sell Writing to Ottoman for WM, TM + 252gp
Sell Polytheism to Babylon for WM, TM + 197gp
Build Embassy with Ottoman for 35gp
Istanbul is pop 5, +6spt, +2fpt - has a Temple and is building a Settler
Build Embassy with Babylon for 36gp
Babylon is pop 6 (1 entertainer), +10spt, zero growth - has a Granary & Pyramids and is building a Bowman
Build an Embassy with India for 64gp
Delhi is pop 5, +9spt, +1fpt - has a Granary and is building a Temple
Build an Embassy with Greece for 46gp
Athens is pop 1 (?), +3spt, +2fpt - no improvements and is building a Hoplite
Shiraz founded - Spear
Horse pops GH (NE landmass) for Philosophy
Sell WM to India for WM, TM + 2gp
Sell WM to Ottoman for WM, TM + 2gp
Looking Good
Notes
We are much further ahead of our rivals than I expected at this point
We have a Galley to cruise the Greek coast (adding value to our WM every turn)
We have a Galley & a Horseman scouting the landmass NE of Muscat (more value to our WM)
There are enough troops poised outside Aydin to take it but I leave that for the next player
Yamama is building the Great Lighthouse so it will need it's tiles improving and some Workers to join the town to get production up
I produced mainly Workers this time as most of our towns were unconnected
Sadly, we were beaten to the Pyramids and the only option open was FP in Medina
Minimap
The save is > here <
regards
Ted
Pre-turn
Mecca switches to worker (we need more workers)
Aleppo founded - Barracks (Attack launch point)
IBT
Najran Horse - Worker
Kufah Horse - Worker
1 - 710BC
Troops move toward Ottoman border
Workers ready themselves for roading
Our Scout heads SW to coast
Trade situation is unchanged
IBT
Scout killed by barbs
Mecca Worker - Worker (MM Mecca for Worker every 2 turns)
Basra Horse - Temple
2 - 690BC
Business as Usual
Trade unchanged
IBT
Najran Worker - Worker
3 - 670BC
Vet horse dispatches barb Horse NE of Kufah
Trade unchanged
IBT
Mecca Worker - Worker
Kufah Worker - Sword
Fustat Horse - Temple
Mansura Warrior - Worker
4 - 650BC
Troops move
Workers work
Trade unchanged
IBT
Baghdad Barracks - Sword
Najran Worker - Temple
Khurasan Spear - Spear
Aden Spear - Worker (zero growth)
5 - 630BC
Upgrade 3 Warriors
Move troops
Workers work
IBT
Mecca Worker - Worker
Damascus Barracks - Sword
6 - 610BC
Upgrade Warrior (Damascus)
Troops move
Workers work
Trade unchanged
IBT
Aden Worker - Temple
7 - 590BC
Upgrade 2 Warriors
Troops move
Workers work
Babylon has Map Making for 615gp
We buy Map Making + WM from Babylon for IW + 429gp
Sell WM to India for WM, TM + 140gp
Sell WM to Ottoman for WM, TM + 79gp
Sell WM to Babylon for 196gp
Yamama switches to Great Lighthouse
Najran switches to Galley and whips
Anjar switches to Galley (wasting 2 shields)
IBT
Mecca Worker - Settler
Narjan Galley - Galley
Anjar Galley - Galley
Babylon completes the Pyramids
8 - 570BC
Medina switches to FP - wasting 64 shields
Troops move
Workers work
Buy slave from India for 100gp
Sell WM to Ottoman for WM, TM + 1gp
Sell WM to India for WM, TM + 2gp
IBT
Medina FP - Barracks
Bukhara Spear - Barracks
Babylon starts Great Lighthouse
9 - 550BC
Fez founded - Spear
Troops move
Workers work
Sell WM to Babylon for WM, TM + 3gp
Sell WM to India for WM, TM + 3gp
Sell WM to Ottoman for WM, TM + 1gp
IBT
Damascus Sword - Sword
Fustat Temple - Horse
10 - 530BC
Contact Greece (cautious) - we are up Map Making & HBR
Sell WM to Greece for WM, TM + 37gp
Sell WM to Babylon for WM, TM + 73gp
Sell WM to India for WM, TM + 78gp
Buy Polytheism, WM + Worker from Ottoman for WM, Writing + 423gp
Sell HBR to Greece for WM, TM + 164gp
Sell Writing to Ottoman for WM, TM + 252gp
Sell Polytheism to Babylon for WM, TM + 197gp
Build Embassy with Ottoman for 35gp
Istanbul is pop 5, +6spt, +2fpt - has a Temple and is building a Settler
Build Embassy with Babylon for 36gp
Babylon is pop 6 (1 entertainer), +10spt, zero growth - has a Granary & Pyramids
and is building a BowmanBuild an Embassy with India for 64gp
Delhi is pop 5, +9spt, +1fpt - has a Granary and is building a Temple
Build an Embassy with Greece for 46gp
Athens is pop 1 (?), +3spt, +2fpt - no improvements and is building a Hoplite
Shiraz founded - Spear
Horse pops GH (NE landmass) for Philosophy
Sell WM to India for WM, TM + 2gp
Sell WM to Ottoman for WM, TM + 2gp
Looking Good
Notes
We are much further ahead of our rivals than I expected at this point
We have a Galley to cruise the Greek coast (adding value to our WM every turn)
We have a Galley & a Horseman scouting the landmass NE of Muscat (more value to our WM)
There are enough troops poised outside Aydin to take it but I leave that for the next player
Yamama is building the Great Lighthouse so it will need it's tiles improving and some Workers to join the town to get production up
I produced mainly Workers this time as most of our towns were unconnected
Sadly, we were beaten to the Pyramids and the only option open was FP in Medina
Minimap
The save is > here <
regards
Ted
- Joined
- Jan 24, 2003
- Messages
- 5,242
Wow Ted
Hooray you're up.
I'll need to look at the save b4 I can comment coherently (if then)
Maybe a Great Library pre-build is on the cards anytime soon. Also maybe we can get stuck into the Ottomans. I think the FP build is fine, but we may now need to jump the palace. Once cleared, the jungle will probably be a good bet.
I would prefer to start and propogate wars nicely if possible. So when we start on the Ottomans please make sure you declare with no troops in the cultural borders and don't attack pop 1 towns that will autoraze if possible.
I know, I know.........teaching my granny to suck eggs. Sorry
Hooray you're up.
I'll need to look at the save b4 I can comment coherently (if then)
Maybe a Great Library pre-build is on the cards anytime soon. Also maybe we can get stuck into the Ottomans. I think the FP build is fine, but we may now need to jump the palace. Once cleared, the jungle will probably be a good bet.
I would prefer to start and propogate wars nicely if possible. So when we start on the Ottomans please make sure you declare with no troops in the cultural borders and don't attack pop 1 towns that will autoraze if possible.
I know, I know.........teaching my granny to suck eggs. Sorry
Originally posted by mad-bax
I know, I know.........teaching my granny to suck eggs. Sorry
But you are right, of course. If we manage to ruin our rep like we did in CTR1, things will get much harder even with this great start. So we also have to be careful about overseas deals.
