Medieval warfare units and tech tree

mccracken97

Chieftain
Joined
Jul 5, 2007
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7
It has always bugged me in Civ IV that to get knights you had to tech guilds which is just one tech away from gunpowder. And by the time you get gunpowder, you really aren't that far away from having grenadiers and cannons. Knights needed to show up earlier in the game. I mean from the end of the Roman Empire until really the age of gunpowder, cavalry dominated the battlefield. But in Civ IV, knights come along so late to be virtually irrelevant in a standard game. They end up serving as cavalry for the gunpowder armies until the curaissers and cavalry show up to finally replace them.

While you get longbows with feudalism which can come very early in the game if you shoot for it. First of all, I thought only the Welsh and the English had longbows. Second, longbows come way too early and in my opinion unbalance the game so far in favor of the defense. Then you get macemen with civil service and machinery. So for most of the medieval stage of the game, all you see are macemen, crossbowmen, longbows, pikemen, catapults, and trebuchets. And for cavalry they have to rely on horse archers. Really?

Now I understand that a two-move unit with a strength of 10 would be really high if knights came with say feudalism and maybe a requirement of also having metal casting and of course horseback riding. So nerf it a bit to maybe an 8 or 9 which is what the war elephants are. To make elephants relevant, give them a +50% against horse units. And then it would have been nice if the longbowmen were the English UU (replaced the crossbow and did not require any resources) or just ditched the longbow altogether, and force defenders to be limited to archers, spearmen, crossbows, macemen, and pikemen.

Just something to think about for the Civ V tech tree.
 
This is a good point, I agree that knights window of usefulness as attackers is a bit small given how quickly gunpowder arrives after guilds. Though with seige as imba as it currently is, what you use to mop up after the seige phase is almost irrelevant and so I really don't mind much. All that's relevant know are techs that let your opponents hold off the seige better.

Also, your suggestion is really a suggestion for a civ iv patch (unlikely to impossible) or a civ iv mod (certainly possible). When civ v comes out the tech tree, unit counters/strengths, and even things as basic as the type of units available, will all be drastically different.

Put in the form of a suggestion for civ v, your point is not "make knights happen sooner" but rather "make sure each military unit has a relevant strategic use for a non-trivial period of time."
 
Well, his general point is that the window of the usefulness of units should not be trivial, his specific point is about Knights. Never thought about it.
 
Good point. Never thought of this, but when you put it in perspective, it makes perfect sense. Mostly because i usually wait a few techs before researching gunpowder. I rarely use knights, because they use to many hammers and i do fine with horse archers and macemen.
 
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