Mehmed Immortal Cookbook

[kossin]

Round 1
Save,Discussion and Playing (this post and below)
All submissions for voting (here)

Round 2
Save,Discussion and Playing (here)
All submissions for voting (here)

Round 3
Save, Discussion and Playing (here)
All submissions for voting (TBA)

Round 4
Save, Discussion and Playing (TBA)


Intro

Spoiler :

The Immortal Cookbook is a concurrent succession game series to help readers learn how to play and win at Immortal level in Civilization 4: Beyond the Sword, v3.19

Some of you may be familiar with the previous Emperor Cookbook games. We decided to raise the level of difficulty to Immortal because we are always playing from the best save and we were often over engineering saves to make them more of a challenge. The difficulty should be approximately equal to Emperor level difficulty, if only slightly harder.

Our Immortal Cookbook game features Mehmed! We will be playing at Immortal difficulty, NORMAL speed, with a standard sized map. Huts and events are disabled for this game, as they tend to make things more random and it will make for better comparison.

Here is the info on our leader, his unique unit and building as well as our starting position and settings:

Leader

Spoiler :

Settings
Huts and events off... rest is standard.
Fractal map. No shenanigans, this is an autosave.

========

To keep the pace going, I've decided to make rounds last EXACTLY one week, from Wednesday to Wednesday. Here's the breakdown of it:

Spoiler :

1-Each Wednesday the save will be posted.
2-Following the posting of the save, I will post some relevant information to the position as well as some suggestions, in spoilers.
3-Players are strongly encouraged to contribute their thoughts in spoilers as well, before reading the other spoilers. Half the work of Immortal is planning while the other half is playing it out
4-You can play whenever you want in the week although it might be best to wait for some discussion first - up to you. Round length will be 70/40/40/end unless otherwise said.
5-Play the round and submit your save by Monday, 0h00 GMT. Late submissions will be accepted but you might not get as many comments/votes as otherwise.
6-Voting begins Monday, 0h00 GMT... review the saves and then post your votes and, preferably, why. If not enough votes are generated, I'll handpick the winning save

========

Roster:

Spoiler :

YOU! - contributor, voter - our most important fixture, the readers who follow the threads and play along.

Now that we have upped the difficulty level, we will return to the 'best ball' system of selecting and playing saves. What this essentially means is that after we have completed each round, everyone will have a chance to vote on which save is in the best position. The winning save will be used for the next round.

If there is any player who is strong at Immortal+ level, it would be great to have you post your saves to show us how it's done. However, I request that any of you who realize your round was far superior remove your save from the voting. This rule is intended to ensure that the game doesn't get into a overly strong winning position after only a few rounds (because what fun is that? ).

Voting Rules:

Spoiler :

1. You may NOT vote on your own save (but you are encouraged to state the strengths and weaknesses of your save).
2. For your vote to count as winning save you are expected to have voted for 3 other saves where possible. There is an element of fair play expected from those that vote and tactical voting is not allowed.
3. Only those who have posted a round may vote (those who are shadowing are always encouraged to express their opinion!)
4. Please don't vote on a save that has voluntarily been removed from the running by the person who submitted it.
5. At the end of each round you can vote on 3 saves for first, second and third place. I believe that these votes should be made publicly in order to allow for as much discussion as possible. I strongly encourage you to explain why you are voting for a particular save. This is one of the best ways to learn, and that's what this game is all about! If you feel uncomfortable voting publicly, PM me with your vote.

========

And now, about the map!

This is an autosave. The only selected features are mentioned above.

Here's your starting area, with the settler selected to see the game's suggestions.


So... you get a coastal start. Many many cheap buildings - look at that, it's REX time!

I guess I can't convince anyone not to go after the GLH, right, right? Do as you will

Round one will last until next week's Wednesday and covers the first 70 turns.

I've spoilered a lot of the usual information to make this post easier to read. Newcomers are encouraged to glance at them, there are a few details that could be interesting.
We'll try a first round of 70 turns, then 40/40 (shorter) and finally to the end and see if that goes better with the masses.

 

[drlake]

There doesn't appear to be anything visible under the Leader spoiler, kos.

 

[Benginal]

There doesn't appear to be anything visible under the Leader spoiler, kos.

Not for me. I can see the start up leader image.

 

[drlake]

Odd. Every other spoiler tag is working properly for me, but not that one.

 

[Dhoomstriker]

Let's see... our Unique Building is an improved Aqueduct and we have a lot of Forests, so learning Math is in order.

We don't start with Fishing but we do get cheap Lighthouses, so we'll probably want to research Fishing and later Sailing at some point.

Starting with Agriculture and The Wheel, then getting Fishing, plus seeing Flood Plains squares, just begs for us to research Pottery. We get cheap Granaries, which seals the deal.

Masonry leads to each of: The Great Lighthouse, The Hanging Gardens, and Construction for Catapults.

We'll also want Bronze Working so that we can chop a lot of trees.

And we'll need Animal Husbandry for our Pig.

So, we'll hopefully be able to find at least one of Horse or Copper somewhere.

Wanting all of those techs doesn't leave us a lot of leeway in what to research, unless you'd rather follow a different approach than chasing after The Great Lighthouse.


Three Flood Plains = 1 Unhealithiness, but 2 Flood Plains = 0 Unhealthiness. As much as I hate settling on a Flood Plains square, as you don't get +1 Food in your City's Centre for doing so, the Flood Plain itself gets destroyed, so we would not suffer -1 Unhealthiness for having the minimum number of Flood Plains in our big fat cross as we might get if we were to, say, move 1W with our Settler.


We start with a Warrior instead of a Scout. AI Workers, beware!

 

[drlake]

OK, so starting strategery thoughts...

Spoiler :

I don't see any reason not to SIP. The two FPs aren't going to be a health issue for an expansive leader. I don't really like losing the FP by settling on it, but the only apparent options are to either move off the river (losing health), move off the coast (losing the GLH option and maybe the seafood) or move 1W, saving the FP but losing the forest chop. None of that is compelling to me, and another resource is reasonably likely in the BFC. I could move the warrior 1E onto the hill to see more of the BFC, but probably won't bother.

Build order is going to be worker then warriors. Tech order is AH, then probably fishing (depends on what else I find in the BFC) then mining, while building a WB.

General approach to this game is to look at REXing, but may do a rush if there is an opportunity.

 

[CivConVict]

I didn't have much time, so here is just a quick shot:

Spoiler :

I settled in place, built a Worker and researched Animal Husbandry.

Early exploration showed jungle to the north and rather dry terrain to the southeast.


With stone nearby I figured I'd go for the Pyramids, since it's probably gonna take some time until we can cottage that jungle up there. I lost a Warrior to a barbarian of the same profession but in general was rather lucky, defeating a couple of barbarian Archers in the jungle.


With the Pyramids in and a oversea neighbour with early Trade Routes I decided to give the Great Lighthouse a shot as well. Instead of building 1-2 more warriors I somehow built the Great Wall for failure gold. That was stupid, since there's now a large portion of land in the northwest for barbarian units/cities to spawn. Weirdest thing though, I could even have finished it:


There isn't really any point to actually have the Great Wall, so I switched to a settler. Final screenshot:


PS: As I'm writing this it occurs to me, that I didn't even switch to Representation yet, making use of the extra happiness ...

 

[Nez477]

I'll probably be giving this one a shot, I'm usually a Prince player but I like Mehmed a lot and have been beating Prince fairly regularly lately. Probably too big of a jump but who knows! I'll at least help in voting if I don't play

The Hamman is pretty key. If you can get a few luxuries by the time you get math that happy cap can skyrocket even without HR. The Janissary, meh, it can or can't be useful

 

[bobbyboy29]

My exams finish in 2 days, so hopefully i'll be able to play more than just the first round this time. Especially since mehmed is my all time favourite leader!
He's organised, tons of cheap (and important) buildings, janissaries+cannons is my favourite war (jans are severely underrated, even by those who like them IMO) and the hammam is very nice as well.

 

[obsolete]

T-70

I did a quick speed run now, I'm actually quite happy...

Spoiler :

I went after a bonus, TGW since stone was near by and I decided what the hell, lets do a small risk, interesting reward gambit. Stonehenge was gone early, but the gambit paid off. (Not that it was any game-breaker).

The real mile-stone was TGLH, which worked out ok for us, and then I am coupling the capital with the Mids, which we will have online in just a few more turns.

So, all in all, I'm pretty happy with everything I have in just 70 turns, I even have an army of 5 workers out there. What pains me is I was hoping for a lot more barbs to level up from, unfortunately they aren't spawning, so it seems my continent must be very, very small

 

[obsolete]

@ CivConVict

Spoiler :

Interesting how our wonder builds were reversed. Since Mids is always completed after TGLH, I decided to get my priorities in order.

I was also debating on building TGW for gold, but decided in the end since it's a 2-for-1 wonder, and never obsoletes, I'd finish it and not have to worry about pesky barb problems that may come up. In the end, it may give an extra GG or two if/when Gilga backstabs so I'm still happy with it.

My tech path is quite different because I want to take another gambit on the Oracle. I estimate I'm less than 33% to get it, but it's another big bang for the buck if I can get it to work.

 

[drlake]

How the hell did you guys get TGW and the mids out so fast? I had to build too many troops to deal with waves of barbs, though I put my stone city exactly where obsolete did. EDIT: NM, I see obsolete chopped a lot more than I did.

 

[hzf]

View attachment (hzf)_Mehmed Immortal Cookbook BC-1200.CivBeyondSwordSave

Spoiler :

I lost my warrior a few turns in (defending vs lion on jungle tile). I knew there was jungle north and i suspect west also. There is non-jungle to the south.

I build a worker and tech AH > Fishing > Pottery > BW. After my worker I grab a warrior, a work boat and a settler, then a second worker finishes just after BW. I found a city 4E of my capital near some rice (it will get stone with a border pop in time my a shot at the mids). I could not settle one tile from stone as a barb archer was lurking.

I develop my two flood plains cottages as much as possible, get a lighthouse and found a thrid city to the south. There is space for a fourth. I had copper in my capital BFC and make 3 axemen to clear out barbs as they enter my land. I dont have any barracks but there should be enough barbs to get me a level 4 unit anyway.

As of turn 70, I am 3 turns from the GLH in my capital, and also 3 turns from writing. The plan will be to get a fourth (moai statue) city to the south, grab the mids and then generate 2 great scientists while running rep. If I miss the mids it isnt the end of the world as my UB will give me happiness until monarchy.

 

[babybluepants]

I guess I can't convince anyone not to go after the GLH, right, right?

Why not? I'll take you up on it.

Spoiler :

I settled 1W of the starting spot. Lost like 3 warriors to the same damn archer. Just kept running into it. Second city was settled on stone - seems like a good spot, no need to waste worker turns on querry, and no need for coastal without GLH. Third city had to go 1S of wheat, to preserve a fish spot west of it.

TGW seemed like a good idea, and I built it in 1t. Then Pyramids. I made some ridiculous MM mistakes - like completely mistiming two chops 'cause I'm too used to BUFFY and completely forgetting about the EXP whip bonus on workers when planning some OF. Also, an awful whip on that stone city granary this turn, don't know what I was thinking there.

Writing is still some turns away.

All in all the turnset feels kinda crappy.

Screenshots will be edited in later.

 

[kossin]

@bbp
If you're used to BUFFY, I suggest swapping in with the BULL dll for when you're playing regular games... saved my "life" quite a few times

 

[Benginal]

Up to turn 70 play-by-play:

Spoiler :

Turn 0: Moved the warrior 1NW with the hope of seeing something useful. I was thinking of maybe settling up there on a riverside plains tile. SIP was less enticing to me since we don’t start with fishing. But given that there’s nothing obviously good up there I’m not going to mess around. SIP it is. I decide the clam isn’t enough to dramatically affect my first moves. So I start building a worker and researching AH.

Turn 1: My warrior is already to the NW of Istanbul, so I continue to explore west of the city.

Turn 5: Borders pop, so I switch from working a FP to working the forested plains hill to shave two turns off the worker build. I’m going to switch back at some point such that AH finishes the same turn as the worker. I could finish the worker earlier and have him start building a road, but I don’t think it’s worth it.

Turn 6: The warrior finds peaks and jungle to the NW. So I’m going to bring him clockwise around the city.

Turn 13: Worker in. AH almost in, so I’ll build half a road on the pigs I guess. I couldn’t get them both to come in this turn with minimal effort. If it is possible to do could you let me know. I’m too lazy to try and figure it out. City starts on a warrior. Explorer warrior is now due east to the city and exploring south. Still no neighbors.

Turn 14: Start on pasture. Start on mining.

Turn 17: Pasture finished. Worker will start next turn on a farm due north of Istanbul. What did you guys do after the pasture? I’m not quite sure of the best thing to do with my worker. Warrior finds stone to the southeast of the city. I’ll possibly go for the pyramids. But I’ll definitely be going for the Hanging Gardens since we’ll be getting early aqueducts anyway.

Turn 21: Start on Fishing. The worker is slowly building a farm north of the city. I’ve found pigs south of the city. I’m going to let that warrior chill down there and fogbust and send my new warrior up exploring north. Still no neighbors, but I suppose they have to be from the north and there’s scout slowing jungle up there.

Turn 22: Warrior in, send him northwest. Start on warrior.

Turn 25: Worker finishes farm, goes over to northwest riverside plains hill and plans to start on mine.

Turn 27: Fishing in, start on Bronze Working. Warrior in, start on fishing boat. I’m currently working the pigs, the farm, and the forested hill. The other warrior is down south fog busting.

Turn 30: Worker finishes mine and heads back over to pigs to start a road to the stone. Istanbul is now size 4 and working farm, pigs, mine, and un-improved clams. I’m really wanting BW so I can start whipping.

Turn 31: Warrior in. I start on a settler working those same 4 tiles.

Turn 40: BW in, revolt in to slavery. Settler in, send him south. I’m going to settle him 1W of the pigs. This will get pigs and wheat in the first border pop. Istanbul starts on an axe man. I’ve apparently got copper on the hill I’ve already improved. This is good news since one of my warriors died and the archers are beginning to appear.

Turn 41: Two-pop whip the axe man. Start on a new axe man.

Turn 43: Erdine settled. I start on a worker. I wasn’t quite sure what was the best build here. But I can’t build a monument yet and pigs is such a good tile I’ll be able to get a worker out somewhat quickly.

Turn 46: Finish axe man in capital and start on work boat.

Turn 48: Finish pig pasture in City 2 and go over to wheat. Still haven’t met any neighbors … weird.

Turn 50: Capital finishes workboat, starts on Worker.

Turn 51: Two-pop whip the worker. Next turn sailing is in, so we can start on Lighthouse.

Turn 52: Worker in, build axe man … barbs are annoying. Sailing in, start on Masonry.

Turn 53: Axe man in, start on Lighthouse.

Turn 54: City 2 finishes worker, starts on axeman. Workers are pre-chopping forests around the capital so I can get TGL.

Turn 56: Meet Giggly.

Turn 60: Masonry in, start on mysticism. Start on Great Lighthouse in Capital.

Turn 66: 3-pop whip in Great Lighthouse. Start on an Axeman

Screen shot of empire:

Spoiler :

 

[Silvtown]

I'm going to give this a try tomorrow.

So, was Kossin challenging us not to go for the GLH, or not-so-subtly hinting that we should build it?

 

[Dhoomstriker]

I'm going to give this a try tomorrow.

So, was Kossin challenging us not to go for the GLH, or not-so-subtly hinting that we should build it?

It's hard to say what his intentions were. However, the Immortal Cookbook games seem to have a history of people trying for The Great Lighthouse for Coastal starts.

Also, with an Organized Leader, a Lighthouse comes at half of its normal cost, leading to a faster Great Lighthouse.

Further, with Mehmed II having so many cheap buildings, spamming Cities sounds like a good approach to take for abusing this cheap-buildings aspect of the Leader, and The Great Lighthouse is one Wonder where spamming Cities has a good synergy.


That said, spamming Cities is generally required for The Great Lighthouse to have any viable effect in the early game (besides the Great People Points). It only starts to add Trade Routes once you have 3 or more Cities and it doesn't really reach its full potential until you have built 4 Cities. So, while building it definitely would set us up for future success, it can be questionable to build it if doing so stunts your expansion for a long period of time, thereby making it about as effective as researching Civil Service or building The Pyramids but forgetting to switch your Civics.

 

[kossin]

I'm going to give this a try tomorrow.

So, was Kossin challenging us not to go for the GLH, or not-so-subtly hinting that we should build it?

Coastal... plenty of forests... Organized. It's fair to say most people will aim to it, so I'm just suggesting it could be interesting to have versions avoiding it purposely just to have something different

 

[babybluepants]

Coastal... plenty of forests... Organized. It's fair to say most people will aim to it, so I'm just suggesting it could be interesting to have versions avoiding it purposely just to have something different

Spoiler :

The unfortunate thing here: the GLH actually is great on the map. And doesn't cost enough for there to be a good trade-off elsewhere.