mercantilism is fine as it is. The mere thought that all civics should be the same at every point in time is ********. Merc fits a niche, very well. Not many people are suggesting that other certain civics be improved so they can go toe to toe with later era civcs are they?
Mercantilism Overpowered
- Thread starter Mesix
- Start date
TheWilltoAct
I am observe
No, because most already can...
depending on circumstance...
serfdom, heriditary, vassalage, theology etc etc are all circumstantial and don't get play for the most part in the later game because the situations they provide for dont exist or are countered in more effect ways. mercantilism plays a role in the game and can compete depending on situation. this doesnt need to be changed
Ekmek
on steam: ekmek_e
Is mercantilism overpowered just because it denies corporations?
Anyone know of any mods that tweak civics?
I knoow there is the debate between state property and free market. but wondering if there are any mods that take it a bit further. Something that gives more viable options. like massive agrarian economies producing cheap and many units. Industrial, free markets that have expensive but high tech armies. Socialist countries that can crank out production but are slim on cash.
a mod that gets deeper into your civic policies would be appreciated and from the looks of the civics xml it loos like there are more options out there.
Anyone know of any mods that tweak civics?
I knoow there is the debate between state property and free market. but wondering if there are any mods that take it a bit further. Something that gives more viable options. like massive agrarian economies producing cheap and many units. Industrial, free markets that have expensive but high tech armies. Socialist countries that can crank out production but are slim on cash.
a mod that gets deeper into your civic policies would be appreciated and from the looks of the civics xml it loos like there are more options out there.
Loge
Chieftain
Just the number of people on each side shows that there are many factors. On maps with lots of continents and Civs, FM looks better. On smaller maps with a few civs, mercantilism looks better. And what about the defensive aspect of mercantilism--stopping other civs from using you for trade routes?
KrikkitTwo
Immortal
- Joined
- Apr 3, 2004
- Messages
- 12,418
Basic Principles
FM is better
1. If Domestic Trade routes are worth more (your cities are large, you have overseas colonies, Harbors/Custom Houses are present, etc.)
2. If you have a large number of Trading partners (perticularly overseas ones)
3. If you have domestic corporations
4. If you have foreign corporations you want the effect of
Mercantilism is better if
0. You are running Representation (almost a requirement)
1. You have representation (obviously)
2. You are Isolated (all your Open border Friends are in Mercantilism)
3. You want to gain a competitive advantage, and are bigger than most of your trading Partners
4. You have Smaller cities
5. There are foreign cops that don't provide a good enough benefit, or at least they are funding a major rival
State Property is best when
0. you are running Caste System
1. You have very few Courthouses or Commerce/Science/Gold Multipliers in your cities
2. There are few useful corporations available... and a number of useless ones
3. You are in a hammer heavy strategy (typically military)
4. You have a very large empire
Environmentalism is best when
1. You are low on health (either from industrialization or running a Specialist Economy.. its worth ~2.7 specialists)
2. The UN forces you to
FM is better
1. If Domestic Trade routes are worth more (your cities are large, you have overseas colonies, Harbors/Custom Houses are present, etc.)
2. If you have a large number of Trading partners (perticularly overseas ones)
3. If you have domestic corporations
4. If you have foreign corporations you want the effect of
Mercantilism is better if
0. You are running Representation (almost a requirement)
1. You have representation (obviously)
2. You are Isolated (all your Open border Friends are in Mercantilism)
3. You want to gain a competitive advantage, and are bigger than most of your trading Partners
4. You have Smaller cities
5. There are foreign cops that don't provide a good enough benefit, or at least they are funding a major rival
State Property is best when
0. you are running Caste System
1. You have very few Courthouses or Commerce/Science/Gold Multipliers in your cities
2. There are few useful corporations available... and a number of useless ones
3. You are in a hammer heavy strategy (typically military)
4. You have a very large empire
Environmentalism is best when
1. You are low on health (either from industrialization or running a Specialist Economy.. its worth ~2.7 specialists)
2. The UN forces you to
Kadasbrass
Warlord
Rarely use Mercantilism anymore myself. I played with corps when first got BTS but now just don't care for the hassel of spreading them. Sometimes I will grap Suisi or Cereal corp if I have enough food to really impact the city's growth. To prevent foreign Corps, I'm normally better off using State Property since A) I like large empires, B) I like foreign trade routes since they really do bring in gold most cases.
Stylesrj
Tabitha SEAL
Do you know how you can spread your corp to a merchantilism city?
Get a spy in there and change their civics. Then spread corporation and enjoy
Get a spy in there and change their civics. Then spread corporation and enjoy
KrikkitTwo
Immortal
- Joined
- Apr 3, 2004
- Messages
- 12,418
^ well # 3 fits into the subreasons for #1
and as for number 4....
money/Res->FM/Merc
Hammers->SP
Environmentalism is Only if health is limiting you in some way
and as for number 4....
money/Res->FM/Merc
Hammers->SP
Environmentalism is Only if health is limiting you in some way
TheWilltoAct
I am observe
Hrm... idk... you are saying Merc is necessary if you are running Representation???
Well I'll have to keep that in mind... but whereas a trade route will grow in size over the course of a game, a specialist is a specialist... nothing really changes. Ultimately you should can the Merc...
Well I'll have to keep that in mind... but whereas a trade route will grow in size over the course of a game, a specialist is a specialist... nothing really changes. Ultimately you should can the Merc...
just wondering, if I someday found a corporation and spread it to some AI cities... will their owners change to mercantilism 100% of the time? Because in my current game I've got a GM really early in the game as a result of building both the colossus and great lighthouse in my capital... just wondering if it would be worth my while to save him to found a corp later once Ive discovered the technology
MrCynical
Deity
@D Wolf - The AI rarely uses Mercantilism if it has any alternative, and it makes no real allowance for corporations in its decisions. Since Free Market must be available by the corporation phase, most AIs will be running that (it's State Property that's the problem). If you've got a merchant, you might want to hang on to him unless you're confident of getting another (e.g. the free one from economics).
I'd also add to the list of points in favour of enviromentalism that you can force everyone into it with the UN, opening all markets to corporation spread. If many civs are staying in state property, you can actually come out ahead on cash. Dubiously, the AI loses money through extra corporation costs, but similar to mercantilism I don't consider doing equal damage to your civ and the AI a genuine benefit.
I'd also add to the list of points in favour of enviromentalism that you can force everyone into it with the UN, opening all markets to corporation spread. If many civs are staying in state property, you can actually come out ahead on cash. Dubiously, the AI loses money through extra corporation costs, but similar to mercantilism I don't consider doing equal damage to your civ and the AI a genuine benefit.
thomson_2001
The Hero of Sween
would be cool if runnin g mercantilism gave you -1 relations wit hothers as a kind of "you keep yourself to yourself so cant be trusted" kind of thing. it is very powerful and i do love this civic 
King of Town
Adventuring
You guys forgot to post the benefits of decentralization...
Mesix
Obergruppenführer
I like to use it. I just don't like that all the computer AI use it too. Every tech that gives a corporations is rendered worthless at this point because you cannot spread the corporation to get the maximum benefit.
The comment that state property disables all corporations holds no weight. There is a trade off there...you don't get the other benefits of having the extra specialists, and it comes later in the game.
With the extra benefit of disabling foreign corporations, there is no reason why any player (AI or human) would want to change to the "more advanced" economic civics. There is no sacrifice to using mercantilism, no trade off.
Maybe Firaxis can release a patch where they take out all of the corporations. They are pretty much a worthless addition to the game right now.
Mesix
Obergruppenführer
As soon as they open borders and I spread a corporation to their cities, they switch to mercantilism. If there were a cost associated with switching to mercantilism, it would be more balanced. As it is now, they just take away those pesky foreign corporation...oh yeah, and get a free specialist in every city to boot. No downside at all.
azzaman333
meh
You aren't playing the same game I am apparently.
Mesix
Obergruppenführer
I've never found a use for the UN before. Maybe I'll give the UN a shot and see how environmentalism works out. The corporations probably are not that important any way, I would just like the opportunity to actually try them out for a change. In the several games that I have played, I have only tried to use the corporation effects four or five times. In every instance, ALL OF THE AI PLAYERS used mercantilism once I got my first corporation.
azzaman333
meh
Are the AI just a really long way behind? So far so that they are only getting banking when you are getting your first corp?
