[MERGE] KROME Beta: K-Mod 1.31 and RoM 1.03 Extended

[JosEPh_II]

@satrapper,
Once the religion cluster of Poly/Mono/Buddh/Confusc/ gets some treatment in the tech tree, and the inclusion of course of K-Mod the balance should not be too bad.

As with any mod over time you figure out what combos give results that you the player wants. But that of course does not mean the AI can do it. In the old days RoM1.03 still suffered from a lackadaisical AI like all Mods did back in 2007/2008. But with K-Mod merged in the old AI "faults/bugs" are disappearing and a much better foe is present. So I expect a tougher game now than I did back then.

@jt
The Jungle Camp taking away 1 hammer was an Afforess inclusion that I did not want (it's what he had done to vincentz JC in AND) as it weakens the JC. And later in the game the AI will chop down all the Jungle tiles, even if there is a JC there, in favor of Farms. The AI will need to be watched for building only Farms and cottages iirc, that was a weakness for the original version. I don't know without more playtime if this holds true or if the K-mod will rectify it.

So far I've really had to watch my unhealthiness and unhappiness in my capital city early game. In the savegame I posted with the 0.7 changes I had 6 angry citizens at one point in a 13 pop city. And I really didn't have a good way to get them back to work.

With version 0.8 I had to start a new game because it wouldn't play the 0.7 (2025BC save game).

That 303 start up error from the Main BtS screen for Load Game under single player, I'm think that has to do with the 3.19 Official patch. Although my original RoM1.03 and 1.03Ext don't have this problem. Maybe it's because KROME has a custom .DLL now from K-Mod and RoM didn't?

JosEPh

 

[Velvet Elvis]

I just checked this out, being a fan of both RoM and K-mod.

Is there any way to disable the thing where explored tiles slowly fade back into the fog? It's kinda annoying but I suppose I can get used to it.

 

[jtanner28]

@Joseph
The compatibility problem is probably because I corrected the mod name and path in the Python. Just hang on to that save game and I'll research the max compatability thing ASAP.

Also, to fix your JC's back to the way you like them, take this file and drop it in the KROME\Assets\xml\Terrain folder

@Velvet Elvis
That feature is something I was just goofing off with. I intend to make it customizable in the future and add some other features that work with it. To make it go away, drop this file into the KROME\Assets\Python folder.

Both of these changes will be incorporated into later versions. Sorry for the short reply. I'm watching a movie with my wife.

 

[JosEPh_II]

Well I would drop it into KROME if I knew how to save it.

If you just zip or rar or 7z it and then upload to your post I could save that.

JosEPh

 

[satrapper]

joe,

right-click and select save target as/save link as and save as xml.
easy-peasy japanesey!

 

[JosEPh_II]

Old dog.... new trick....thanks.

JosEPh

 

[JosEPh_II]

Just got my behind handed to me on Noble level game! AI came at me with a SoD of 12 units to start on my chokepoint border size 3 city. I rushed units in to defend the city and soon it was a 16 vs 16 standoff. But he had elephant and sword while I had axe, horse archer, and archers. We both had wardogs and he had 2 cats. I don't have Iron in my empire so I can't build sword. I rush build some spear and he then brings in a 2nd SoD with Longbow, Axe, and Crossbow. I'm out gunned and out manned. I've left barebones defenders in the rest of the empire. Using a forested Hill and the river the AI keeps my city defenders bottled while he maneuvers the 2nd SoD past the city into the interior of my now weakened empire. Checkmate! I can't produce units fast enough to counter this 2nd force. And on the next turn a 3rd SoD appears on the border with more Elephant, Sword, Crossbow, and catapults. I concede it's over.

K-Mod has made the AI much more ruthless than I ever remember regular RoM could ever be at it's best.

KROME is gonna be a great mod. Even more so if Advanced Diplomacy gets added in.

JosEPh

 

[jtanner28]

Awesome Hey, do you mind posting a save game file? I'd love to load it up and watch the AI in action. I've spent a lot of time modding and not so much playing so I've not really go a chance to see a good fight yet.

I was really hoping that the AI would be able to work with all the differences in units and such. Just an FYI: I've begun SDK modding. I've just finished adding in Multiple Production. Next target is Multiple Research followed by Passable Mountains and Advanced Unit Actions. After that, my plan is to add (in no particular order) Advanced Diplomacy 2, DCM, RealForts, Super Spies, Barbarian Civ, MAD Nukes, and a several other smaller modcomps. All of the ones I just mentioned will have to have their AI tweaked to come up to K-Mod standards.

Next release will probably break compatibility. I'm still looking into that max compatibility save format.

 

[kiwi_lifter]

Hi JT,

Might I recommend that we iron out the tech tree (for religions), cut away all the unnecessary units (if that's the consensus), and see how the ai responds to that before we add anything else? My impression is that the ai is not very clever at using the tech tree at the moment. In all other aspects, it's good, but I can found 5 religions every game easily on both prince and monarch with 18 civs....I'd like to think that at least one of those civs with a research advantage would beat me to the punch once in a while!

Cheers

 

[jtanner28]

Hmm, the AI improvements don't extend to the tech tree, eh? I was not aware of that. As it turns out, my merge of Multiple Production actually has a bug in it anyway, so I've had to back up a bit. Let me see what I can do with tweaking the tech tree first (and possibly the algorithm for AI research) and then move forward on the SDK mods. Even if your strategic focus is Religion, I think that being able to found 5 out of the 7 is excessive. Let me see what I can do to tweak it.

How about this: Make all the Religions actual seperate dead-end techs with VERY high research costs? Then founding even a single religion would constitute a huge investment in time. Also, announce to all players something like this: "Mystics in Germany are fascinated with the teachings of Buddha." Essenntially, make it known to the AI that you are already working on teching that religion. I'd also give bonus beakers to anyone who is researching a different religion whenever one is completed and adjust the AI to prioritize teching another religion or beat you to that one. If you want to go with a religious strategy, that's fine, but while you are founding one, someone else can just research the next tech and get a jump on the next one. Also, I'd move Christianity to be dependent on Theology instead of Literature. That would put 5 religions almost directly in line. This would allow a "Religion race" strategy amongst multiple civs.

As far as the UU'S, I actually do think that there are just a few too many. What I'd like to do is leave two per civ. One early game one and one late game one. Same thing with the UB's. This will be a departure from the way RoM handled it, but I think it will make balance easier. I'm also looking in to tweaking the civics a bit and a few other things. The modcomps I listed above are just some things that I think would add strategic gamma play value. That's really what I'm looking for. It's not so much content as it's variability of play and interesting game mechanics that I'm looking for.

 

[kiwi_lifter]

This sounds good to me. Enough variety to create different strategic paths, but not so much content that it muddles the ai and overwhelms the player. I'm only good for grunt work, as I lack technical skills or knowledge, but if there's simple way to do things like change the research/building icons and replace them with unique ones that were added later, I'm happy to do that.

Edit: it also seems that the Jungle Camp can be built anywhere near vegetation, at least with the fix that you offered to Joseph.

 

[JosEPh_II]

Yeah JC can be built in places it wasn't meant to be. There are some other tweaks to JC I'd like to see later on.

Making the religions "one off" the original founding tech and dead end is a goal I've been trying to get the C2C team to do. And there is a simple prerequisite tech fix to separate the Poly/Mono 1-2 punch. Same goes for the Mono/Meditation(Buddhism). Then making a tech that actually gives the religion and moving it one more step in the tech tree and having the original tech the Only prereq tech will greatly improve the spreading of the religions. The AI isn't really "dumb" about religions but does concentrate more on production and units.

Hmm, the AI improvements don't extend to the tech tree, eh? I was not aware of that

Remember K-Mod isn't using RoM1.03 's expanded tech tree. But I'm sure karadoc has looked at how religions are getting founded, by who, and how many. At least I hope he has.

Also, I'd move Christianity to be dependent on Theology instead of Literature.

This is okay as long as it doesn't create another religion bottleneck with Confucianism and Taoism. But using the one off dead end tech should also help here as well.

@kiwi,
What UUs and UBs are bothering you? I'm curious as I've often thought early RoM could've used more Mil units and associated bldgs.

Edit:
@jt,
Current game, latest save, version 0.8 with JC update. The game I lost I had already went into WB and messed with and then deleted.

JosEPh

 

[kiwi_lifter]

@kiwi,
What UUs and UBs are bothering you? I'm curious as I've often thought early RoM could've used more Mil units and associated bldgs.

I don't really mind them, but they seem a bit redundant to me...if they don't slow down the game or confuse the ai in any way, though, I suppose there's little point in removing them.

 

[jtanner28]

Hey everyone,

I've finally arrived at my relatives house. I brought my laptop and will try to do some work on KROME. I had the chance to add a couple of the religions as one-off dead-end techs. Hinduism and Judaism so far. I'd like to keep the current tech tree about the same and just add the seven religions as techs. I've set the cost of the two that I've done so far to be three times the cost of their parent tech. For example, Polytheism costs 100 beakers and Hinduism costs 300. Monotheism is 120; Judaism is 360. This is just beginning values. We'll need to play test to see if it makes a difference. I'll finish them all up and then tweak the event code to give bonus beakers later.

Also, K-Mod 1.32 has been released. I'm going to update KROME to it because the changes all look very positive. Since the next release will break compatability and have drastic tech tree alterations anyway, I'm going to go ahead with a few small SDK mods too and just skip 0.9 and call it version 1.0. It will probably be next weekend or so before I release it.

@Joseph:
What other tweaks to the JC's are you looking for? Any other tweaks you think need to be made? Additions? Deletions?

 

[kiwi_lifter]

Exciting And I've gone from Emperor to Noble difficulty, and am loving it! I wonder if at some stage we could add in the new leader types-scientific, etc-that were later added in to ROM? Just a thought.

 

[JosEPh_II]

Jungles from core CIV/BtS have always had a -1 food that is really incongruous to what jungles actually provide. Plus, because of the abundance of hard woods/fruits/gold/gems/ etc., if a Jungle tile is on a river, where transport of these good is much better, there needs to be a +1 gold added to the tile with a JC improvement. The Roads bonus you added is very similar.

Some small bugs, in sevopedia the button for JC is actually the same as the Workshop button. There are a couple more that I noticed last night but didn't get them wrote down. I'll provide a list later this week after the 4th when I'm no longer On Call and the company stops making my life a living H*** in this Heat.

I need to revisit the K-Mod subforum and ask karadoc if he increased the AI's propensity for war. And in what direction(s).

The adjustments you've made/proposed for the core 7 religions should make Religion founding a much more pronounced strategy. (If I could only get the C2C team to stop dragging their collective feet on this change. )

Any thoughts on why I still can't load a save game from the main BtS screen under single player? I still have to go Advanced->Load Mod->Select KROME-> Launch Mod and from the main screen load my savegames from there.

JosEPh

Edit: High Walls require Walls, Castles require Walls. But, if you build HW 1st you must build Walls again (2nd Time) to get Castles. Castles should have HW as an OrPrereq. Or as an AndPrereq.

 

[satrapper]

on unique units/buildings:
heck i don't know how/what civ shoves out to virtual memory but for eg, as it stands KROME has an art folder of 100MB and civ has well known memory issues on big-assed maps/late game etc (yeah i know, i know). memory is precious. and they slow loadup (grasps at straws). i'd prefer extra civs than more uu/ubs. but im not complaining about the current setup in KROME.

on high walls thingy: i think the prerequisite is covered by "BuildingClassNeededs" and that's fine in buildinginfos. i think the prob is possibly to do with a cannotConstruct call not working. arcology shielding is same and prob all other buildings that have upgrades??
turning USE_CANNOT_CONSTRUCT on in PythonCallbackDefines didn't solve it for me. i gave up at that point

 

[Velvet Elvis]

I'm really enjoying this so far. Thanks!

Is adding more map scripts on the todo list?

 

[JosEPh_II]

<BuildingClassType>BUILDINGCLASS_HIGH_WALLS</BuildingClassType>
Add this to Castles in BuildingClassInfos and Castles will need both Walls and High walls to be built.

The AndPrereq and OrPrereq is for the Tech tree and Technology builds, my bad on that one.

JosEPh

Edit: Port and Commercial Port are doing a similar thing. Build Port then build Commercial Port and Port shows back up in the build que. I remember this happening when RoM 1.0 was introduced but I don't remember the fix. It might have been something like the added line I posted for Castles (Spanish Castle needs that line too).

 

[satrapper]

jt
the GlobalDefines.xml you've got is well old, referencing version 3.03 of civ. that's prob (is) causing the savegame not loading properly thing.

if you fix that issue with obsolete buildings reappearing after upgrade could you detail what the fix is, i'm curious?

have to say i quite like this mod, i hope it gets the recognition it deserves. perhaps once you get beyond beta you could create a new thread in the Civ4 - Modpacks forum so a wider audience can become aware of it?