Meshabber of Dis and Mithril Golem

[·Imhotep·]

Any idea why these units cost 5000 hammers, whereas the two dragons are about equal in strength and cost just 360 hammers ? I mean, these two can't be built in most cases if you don't have stored 5 or 6 Great Engineers...

 

[psychoak]

The two dragons are racial heroes, those guys are bonus meat grinders. About equal in strength is a rather inaccurate description as well. The tougher of the two dragons is 23 strength. Meshabber clocks in at 31, uses weapons for 35 with mythril, and has divine fire 2. Comparing them is like saying Saverous is a match for Mardero. The mithril golem is a little more reasonable a comparison in stats, divine earth 3 isn't that useful to account for a 150% increase in build. On the other hand, you've got an edge as kilmorph that Meshabber can't share, and that the dragons need serious effort to share. Heal requires summoning or divine life 3, repair just needs a dwarf with enchantment 1. Practically speaking, the Mithril golem is always going to be at full strength when the enemy moves. What he lacks in brute strength is made up for in being guaranteed to be in good order every turn.

I don't particularly like the 5k hammers though. They're already rather difficult to obtain, 2k would be a much nicer number. The Mithril golem is a little lower in class, but as kilmorph you're not exactly going to be short on production. Being specific to a particular city you can't just build it from a super production power, as you'd need your religion to have popped in a particularly good location. The 200 hammer dwarf city of doom that got built in floodplain mountain tiles wont be much use unless it's the 200 hammer dwarf city that got the religion pop.

 

[Demus]

the other 9 dwarf cities that did go to the FP mountain tiles can still crank out SoK's to boost the mithril production. Besides, i'd start saving engineers the moment i see the AC go up fast enough for it to hit 70 (not sure if you can actually use them to rush a unit but still)

 

[westamastaflash]

Big golem comes too late to be of much use, I just kill everything with my little golems

 

[MagisterCultuum]

I think that the two avatars need to be made cheaper and/or much stronger. The Mithril Golem especially is to weak to warrant building, since it cannot get promotions. It used to be good, but then its base strength was nerfed when it was given affinity in Fire. For some reason it hasn't had affinity since the first BtS version, but its base strength was left at the lower value.

 

[daladinn]

ok lets get some accuracy in here ....

mishaber is 19 +6fire +6 unholy. this breakdown matters at the high end as many things start showing resists. yes its a str 31 but its also a demon and can be banished. mishaber is also a mellee unit

the mithril golem is a str 25 with 60% bonus to city attack which is scary as hell. figure that you also hopefully have the 50% bonus of him having empower 5 from barny. 30% bonus from heavy , and city defense 1 from gridlines. ALSO as a golem he is untyped.

the dragons both count as beasts.

honestly out of the gate the mithril golem can be close to a 45 with his bonuses. and like was said before he is repaired really easily. i hope his costs dont come down.

also .... engineers and SoK iirc cant be used to build units.

 

[kenken244]

yes its a str 31 but its also a demon and can be banished.

That is, unless the player controlling them is the infernals, in which case he is simply teleported to your capital.

 

[Ekolite]

Hmmm... that's an interesting synergy - and gives the lurchip even more reason to raise the AC. A +50% Mithril Golem is gonna be pretty damn strong.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

I still consider the Mithril Golem not to be worth it, at least unless he is built in a city with a Blasting Workshop; add sorcery and Fire 2 to its Divine and Earth 3 and you quadruple the number of spells it can cast (Earthquake, Fireball, Ring of Fire, and Crush instead of just Earthquake)


What do you mean "as a golem he is untyped"? Isn't is a melee unit, thus vulnerable to shock? Edit: I just checked, and while all the other golems are melee it actually doesn't have a unitcombat, so it isn't

(Modding its affinity back in also makes it worth it. I've given both it and Meshabber significant affinity, and also made the dragons much stronger. It doesn't seem right that the War Machine could be the match of a Dragon or an Avatar)

 

[kenken244]

Also, Lurchip and Khazad are the only civs that can heal the Mithril Golem.

 

[Seventh Star]

Incorrect. Bambur gets repair.

 

[sylvanllewelyn]

I don't like using heroes that rely on strength rather than spells, because you can always get unlucky with direct combat. Unless it's multiplayer, in which case you always take risks against human players. Seriously though, the Meshabber of Dis is alright because he's a strong spellcaster, while the mithril golem is nothing but a huge chunk of strength. Only being available in the holy city, but with a ridiculous hammer cost, makes it a lot worse.

 

[Pyr0mancer]

Magister's point about adding Sorcery and Fire II to the Mithril Golem negates your argument, sylvanllewelyn. Crush and Ring of Fire are both solid direct-damage spells, and fireballs are good for bombarding and collateral damage. Str 25 + Empower V + heavy against a target that's just been hit by Crush is pretty much a guaranteed win. In all seriousness, you should have a blasting workshop in most of your cities anyway, even if you have to use Soldiers of Kilmorph to rush them. Seriously. Workers with Fireballs.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

I think my biggest problem with the Mithril Golem is his speed; there is no way to make him have a more than 1 movement point.

I think the Mithril Golem should be given 2 (or even 3?) movement. There is no other way to make him faster (barring transports, but those would only work over water, and you would risk losing him), and it does seem like a golem with legs that long would have longer strides.

 

[sylvanllewelyn]

pyr0mancer: The Mithril Golem is really only a city attacker, but only after cannons remove all cultural defenses and the defenders weakened by something. You can't really just barge in and attack an entrenched, experienced national unit that still has fortify bonus, strength bonuses and hill bonuses, plus possibly river bonus if it's in a chokepoint, even if empower 5 + 60% city attacker gives it 55 strength, plus affinities for mana.

But yes, I see the value in the mithril golem as a spellcaster. Problem is, if I want spellcasters, I could get a lot more of them for 5000 hammers.