Meshabber of Dis

[WarKirby]

I'm having severe problems trying to build Meshabber of Dis in a calabim game.

The problem isn't really his HUGE production cost, 5000 (well, it is sort of)
The real problem, is that he can only be built in the Ashen Veil holy city. Which is a problem because you can't choose which city that is. And was it any of my SIX Vast production centres?

No. The ashen veil holy city is a city with a third of it's radius filled with mountains, another third with sea, and almost all the rest with flatlands (3 tiles of which have valuable commerce resources). The city has 1 measly hill

Forge, governor's manor, several engineer specialists, engineering, blasting powder, several workshops, heroic epic, and 4 great engineers later, I managed to get the production time down to a disgusting 50 turns



Why can he only be built in the holy city?
We could really do with some way to move the religion's holy city, or at least to build meshabber in any city with AV. It's far too much to try to build such a thing in a completely randomly chosen place.

 

[westamastaflash]

I really think that the religions shouldn't automatically be founded. Instead, the civ should get a disciple, which can then found the religion in your choice of city.

 

[Methuselah]

I'd also like to add that the meshabber is rather a letdown. For what he requires and all, you'd expect him to be better.

 

[Karnja]

I really think that the religions shouldn't automatically be founded. Instead, the civ should get a disciple, which can then found the religion in your choice of city.

sounds like a very well idea. but than again it would be possible to focus severall religions in one singel city and that would make a few buildings like the bazaar of mamon an incredibly money print machine. still, i like the idea!

 

[Monkeyfinger]

Save up gold and rushbuy him. Costs 3 gold per remaining hammer if I remember right, with a 1.5x multiplier if you've invested no hammers at all (so be sure to have the city work on building him, if just for 1 turn.) It really doesn't matter where the holy city is, you're not going to build him the old fashioned way.

Meshabber and mithril golem have ******** prices. The final altar and the tower of mastery, which WIN YOU THE GAME, cost 1,000 less hammers than those heroes. And 70 AC + founding RoK or AV is a pretty comparable requirement to say getting 4 mana nodes and a metamagic 2 mage + teching to strength of will.

In before someone says the price of those victory wonders is the problem. I won't agree with this - I think they are costed reasonably. It's the 70 AC heroes who need much lower costs.

 

[WarKirby]

sounds like a very well idea. but than again it would be possible to focus severall religions in one singel city and that would make a few buildings like the bazaar of mamon an incredibly money print machine. still, i like the idea!

You can already do this if you play one city challenge

I have a Sidar game why my capital (and only city) is the holy city of every religion except ROK

 

[WarKirby]

Save up gold and rushbuy him. Costs 3 gold per remaining hammer if I remember right, with a 1.5x multiplier if you've invested no hammers at all (so be sure to have the city work on building him, if just for 1 turn.) It really doesn't matter where the holy city is, you're not going to build him the old fashioned way.

Meshabber and mithril golem have ******** prices. The final altar and the tower of mastery, which WIN YOU THE GAME, cost 1,000 less hammers than those heroes. And 70 AC + founding RoK or AV is a pretty comparable requirement to say getting 4 mana nodes and a metamagic 2 mage + teching to strength of will.

In before someone says the price of those victory wonders is the problem. I won't agree with this - I think they are costed reasonably. It's the 70 AC heroes who need much lower costs.

15,000 gold isn't exactly easy to come by, either. especially when you have an empire to develop, wars to fight, et al.

 

[Monkeyfinger]

Yeah, it's a pain to save that much gold up if you still have to fight to win, but it's your only option.

The fact that this is the case is why the meshabber should cost less!

 

[Karnja]

You can already do this if you play one city challenge

I have a Sidar game why my capital (and only city) is the holy city of every religion except ROK

nice. but it starts really to become intresting when you play on a large map + with many cities where your religion can spread $$$

 

[Fafnir13]

I'd also like to add that the meshabber is rather a letdown. For what he requires and all, you'd expect him to be better.

All the end game units are. Well, maybe not Aulric. Haven't manage to use him yet (steamrolled at got my earliest victory thus far in that game...)

At the very least, slash all the costs of such units by 50%. Also slash the AC requirement by a bit. 70 is not the time to be pulling out all the stops to save the world/burn the world. 50 would be a bit better and not be quite as much of a pain to achieve in games that haven't gone to pot already.

 

[reveler]

Why not pick up on the idea to make the holy city moveable? Think of various shrines or something which could be picked up and relocated.

 

[Thunder_Gr]

Because I think the consept of founding a religion is something uncontrolable from the Head of Government(which is you, the player), alright, you can choose which religion you adopt as a state religion, if any, but you cannot choose who is going to found it and where... In addition, historically speaking, most new religions were initially founded in remote cities or villages, which later became centers of culture, or even capitals.

In other words, holy cities are not ment to be your center of commerce, power or production, but of spiritual guidance and culture.

As a solution to building a wonder in a holy city that is not suitable for it, I would suggest a Great Engineer. And if this cannot be done in this specific game, its alright, not everything can be done in every game we play. Try next game .

 

[Humakty]

I agree with thunder Gr, but nonetheless I think building those two avatars is a mighty quest all of its own. I'd rather see their cost toned down.

 

[zup]

Well I'd love to at least get my first religion founded in my capital. Or even a chance to found a religion in my capital.

But it gets better. Build 2 cities and found all religions. Obviously Order fanatics will allow founding a demon cult in their holy city. After you have 2 or more cities, no holy city in your capital (which is ideally located, will build/has built Slums, has tower of eyes and heroic epic, throw in Ride of the Nine kings and altar, just out of spite). But it cannot have Stigmata on the Unborn. And that's the only way to get such an uber promotion for Eurabatres and the like.

 

[Thunder_Gr]

Well I'd love to at least get my first religion founded in my capital. Or even a chance to found a religion in my capital.

Hehe, have you considered to move your capital to the holy city? It is not that hard.

 

[Imuratep]

You could make the "found religion" spell not castable if the city already is a holy city of a religion. This would solve the problem of multiple religions collected in one city.

 

[WarKirby]

As a solution to building a wonder in a holy city that is not suitable for it, I would suggest a Great Engineer. And if this cannot be done in this specific game, its alright, not everything can be done in every game we play. Try next game .

Meshabber is a unit, not a wonder. He can't be rushed with great engineers.

The best they can do is join the city, and add a mildly useful 4 per turn, which doesn't make a great deal of difference to 5000

 

[xalien]

Running civics that increase military production is a good idea. Nationhood, Military state, Conquest (food), all of them together can significantly increase production speed.

 

[kumquatelvis]

At the very least you should be able to build the Meshabber of Dis is in, well, you know, DIS.

 

[Vitek]

If you are planning to build him you should prepare your holy city in advance. You can build forge, Guild of hammers if possible, run guilds with lot of engineer and maybe some more thing that help.
Still I agree they ARE ovecosted.