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Mic3 - Wonder Expansion

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Succession Games' started by microbe, Jul 22, 2004.

  1. grs

    grs nameless one

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    preturn: Moscow to max shields at zero growth; St. Pete to spear and to growth in 2 will still get spear in 3, lux to 10%, reasearch to 90% - literature in 6; escort to settler
    ibt: barbarian uprising near St. Petersburg :(
    330BC: embassies
    China (Beijing): monarchy, size 6, SoZ, 2 ivory, 3 ACs, 2 spears, 0.10.0, the oracle in 5, 13spt, 13fpt, 12gpt
    India (Delhi): anarchy, size 4, furs, 2 incense, silks, 2 spears, 3.7.0, the oracle in 9999 (a bit more than half of it is built), 8 spt, 9 fpt, 13 gpt
    Ottomans (Istanbul): monarchy, size 7, iron, horses, incense, silks, 3 spears, 2.8.0, ToA in 15, 13spt, 18fpt, 17gpt
    America (Washington): monarchy, size 7, 2 wines, 2 dyes, gems, 2 spears, 0.10.0, ToA in 10, 17fpt, 13spt, 22gpt
    We will have to get the Lighthouse before America gets ToA, no one has literature so the cascade might end there!
    IBT: Americans start the Great Lighthouse; China starts the ToA
    310BC: Though I understand the reasoning for settling 1 south, I dont have the guts to move further. Rostov is settled just out of reach of the barb camp - spear. Workers merged, Moscow size 11 - Lighthouse in 7.
    IBT: our curragh gets sunken by barbs; St. Pete spear - spear; Rostov switched to galley
    290BC: --
    IBT: --
    270BC: we could get construction from the Ottomans for map making + 15gpt - no deal
    IBT: barbs leave their camp straight east
    250BC: St. Pete spear - spear; America and India have literature, lux to 30% for one turn, till Novgorod gets its temple
    IBT: literature in; Novgorod temple-settler; China completes the Oracle - many builds switch, but non completes
    230BC: lux back to 10%, researched turned off
    IBT: St. Petersburg spear - horse
    210BC: lux to 30% for one turn
    IBT: Ottos declare on India
    190BC: I see no way for us to get the Lighthouse and the Library so I switch before the Lighthouse completes next round
    IBT: India removes Rostovs barbcamp for us
    170BC: Moscow is done - it has a 12th tile for working after we join another worker (from Novgorod) and will be a +0 food then
    IBT: I fear the indians landed on "our" isle (at least I saw a galley sailing there); St. Pete horse - horse; Novgorod settler-worker; Rostov galley-galley; Americans complete ToA
    150BC: Novgorod is at 5fpt and 10spt now; settler is escorted by the horse; Library is due in 3 - hope that it will be soon enough.
     
  2. microbe

    microbe Cascaded Mansion

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    Good to know more AI wars. If we can't get the iron island, we could prepare a war to capture the American city.

    We need to meet more people. I'll look at the save tonight to post more comments.

    microbe
    Kaiser_Berger
    grs
    Kiech - up
    Ankka - on deck
    TheNemesis666
     
  3. grs

    grs nameless one

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    My biggest concern is our library build. The Indians will have to switch a large prebuild for the ToA next turn and this may result in us losing the Great Library and maybe all other AA wonders too. Alas, I did not see a chance to get a single shield more in my turns - even food shortage was no option.

    I am really eager to press space...no...I'll wait patiently for Kiech to report.
     
  4. microbe

    microbe Cascaded Mansion

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    Does India have Literature?? Oh it does. Damn it. But it's not building it in its capital, so I guess it should be OK.
     
  5. microbe

    microbe Cascaded Mansion

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    I checked the save.

    During grs' turns:

    India (Delhi): anarchy, size 4, furs, 2 incense, silks, 2 spears, 3.7.0, the oracle in 9999 (a bit more than half of it is built), 8 spt, 9 fpt, 13 gpt

    And now Delhi is on ToA. I guess it was switched when Oracle was built. Then absolutely no worry here. Oracle is cost 300, that means about 10 turns ago it was at most 200 shields. With even 10spt it would only be 300 shields now (I guess India was Monarchy before so revolting wouldn't make more shields). So we should be able to get GL. The only worry is some OTHER AI on the other continent might grab it..well not much we can do. If we lose, I'd suggest switching to Hanging Gardens.

    We'll get Republic from GL and I suggest we build a galley first then revolt immediately. We then should build library, market and then start on Hanging Gardens (probably will have to switch to another wonder).

    In the mean time:
    1. settle the island
    2. build some horses to take the American iron if the first mission fails?
    3. send a galley to east to meet the other continent through American territory

    I'm glad to see we have more military, but we still need more.
     
  6. Kiech

    Kiech King

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2002
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    987
    Got it. Taking a look now.

    Spying on my prey:


    Yea!


    If we build here, S of the goodie hut is idea.


    Our Empire:
     
  7. Kiech

    Kiech King

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2002
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    987
    The Save

    Preflight: Its unfortunate that Rostov is in a area that shares 6 squares. Do we HAVE to keep the town, or can we abandon it in favor of another spot? I am going to pretend it is a military town for now, and not build any improvements. Moscow can be MM to produce more food at that cost of 1g 1s...but we still get the library in 3. Buffalo is looking like a very nice city, if we dare take it. And I might dare to do so. Gold hill, Iron hill, a river, Flood plains, the only desert has an oasis on it...and it can build a harbor! Only one defender there, and they are building a settler due NEVER unless he switches to a worker or harbor. OK, battle plans, take Buffalo! I send a warrior and a archer from Novogrod towards Buffalo, and increase the lux tax. The horse will follow.

    IBT: Chineese start the gardens and the library...chineese finish the gardens. Indians start the library, along with the Ottomans - Ottomans FINISH the library!!! Americans start on the lighthouse.

    (1)130: I switch to the lighthouse, due next turn. Novgorod starts on a library. The new worker begins his road to Buffalo. I give up on the race for republic, as we need to do our own research now. 375 to Gandi for Currency. Currency, 40g and 5gpt to Otto for Construction. We get Feudalism as our freebe. Otto has Engineering but not republic, which he will get for free next turn. No other techs availible. I consider not trading at all, but I fear the library in Ottoman hands, so I am going to take it now. China really wants feudalism, and is willing to pay 14gpt, republic, and 6g. Gandhi buys Engineering and Feudalism for 25gpt and 480g, hopefully he doesn't start a 2 front war. I could build the Art of War in 8, but we need cities, and the lighthouse is pretty much a sure thing. I change research to 90% focused on Monotheism, hopefully we can end the library madness soon.

    IBT: The lighthouse is done, start on a harbor for trade, then on to Art of war for a prebuild. Everyone starts on the art of war. New Delhi is founded on the island, but won't encompass the cow or iron...heh.

    (2)110: I consider a partial rush on the harbor, but decide to hold on to the cash for trading later. Luxuries have to go up a point. Lux to 30%

    (3)90: I declare America and send in the troops to take the gold mountain. I put a horse and a settler into the boat.

    (4)70: America snuck in a second spear somehow. Our horse won, our archer redlined the second spear but died, and the 1337 warrior took the city. I start on a galley. Rostov's road has been completed. No ability to trade yet, but that could be due to our map. Novogrod is getting expensive to upkeep. I change one of them to a entertainer, and move lux to 10%. I order a Spear to be made in Moscow. The new galley is set to auto explore.

    IBT: China extorts us for 45g, I cave.

    (5)50: Lots of stuff completes. Start a library for moscow, spears for pete and rostov, and a barracks in novogrod.

    (6)30: I find some land that looks untouched, and a hut, too bad I don't have any landers on this boat. Lots of Indians in our lands, but I think they are going to fight the ottomans.

    (7)10BC: A spear arrives in Novgorod, and I can change the entertainer to a scientist for now. And I find a pretty little island that would be a great place to settle. Not too far away, has Iron and fish. Kinda close to the ottomans, but something to think about.

    (8)10AD: Heh, Pete riots. I take a spear just built from rostov and move it in to end the pain. My road to Novgorod completes. I get mad, and change buffalo from a galley to a harbor, and rush it for 192g. And our golden age ends.

    IBT: China and India sign vs Otto.

    (9)30: The people try to cheer me up by allowing me to put up some Thundercats worship poles near the palace. Wow there sure are a LOT of Indians near Buffalo. Good thing they are fighting Otto. I switch it to a spear and rush it. The new harbor in Buffalo doesn't connect to our other cities, again, no doubt due to our lack of a map. It looks doubtful that I will be able to complete my road to buffalo and the iron before the line of Indian archers pass. Rostov gets a sci man.

    (10)50: Lincon will finally talk to us. We offer peace, and he takes it!

    Debreifing: There are no new techs for us to trade, and our ports are ineffective right now. Shoot straight for Education, we have to nip the Library ASAP. I didn't revolt, but if we still want to, now would be the ideal time. HOWEVER, our cities are using the troops as MP to keep our lux tax down, so maybe we should wait for Demo instead, or at least until we can trade for luxuries. Consider rushing the boat in Buffalo to find trade routes. And I really think that we should relocate Rostov, but I wonder if that is within our rules. I don't expect to get the Art of War, and you may want to do some intelligence to determine if we have enough turns to keep up the prebuild until another wonder pops along.
     
  8. microbe

    microbe Cascaded Mansion

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    Good work. Too bad that we lost Great Library, just for the culture, but we already built 4 ancient wonders that I think we are doing great. Good that we captured the iron city. :thumbsup:

    Next wonder should be Sistine Chapel, but that's still a while away. Let's build library, market in our capital first (rush if possible), then maybe colosseum/cathedral, then time a prebuild for Sistine while we are doing research for Monotheism -> Theology. And keep sailing to meet the other continent!

    It's a while before we can get the next city, so please use the opportunity to build up our military and infra (libraries for culture expansion).

    We have some decent cities!

    Oh, should we revolt? I feel it's the best time to do it as we are not building any wonders urgently. Things will heat up soon (Sistine, JS Bach's, Copernicus!)

    microbe
    Kaiser_Berger
    grs
    Kiech
    Ankka - up
    TheNemesis666 - on deck

    We are already in Middle Ages. Hut wouldn't give us anything.

    It's certainly within our rules. I don't know what others think. I feel it was a very bad move to found it in a haste. Now it's pop 5. We can certainly build a settler and 2 workers, abandon it and refound/merge back.
     
  9. Kiech

    Kiech King

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    987
    We could still get cash from the hut, IIRC...or maybe thats just for the expansionits.

    I don't like the idea of revolting yet, it would kill our science, as too much would have to be put into lux tax.

    When Rostov is moved(S 1 Tile), rush library/temple ASAP, to counter the Otto's city culture. We DO have a settler riding in the northern boat, really just doing nothing right now. Turn Rostov into a worker factory, and move the settler to the desired spot, then relocate the city. Once those slaves finish the mine, completing the road won't be a big issue. Instead of rushing the boat in Buffalo, rush workers in Rostov instead.

    Moscow hasn't been working on the wonder for long, so switching to a marketplace won't hurt.
     
  10. microbe

    microbe Cascaded Mansion

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    Will revolt really require more lux slider? I'm actually not sure of this. Remember that Republic gives a lot more commerce, so the same lux percentage might bring in more happy faces? Anyone knows how this is calculated?

    The problem of not revolting is that we'll have to wait until democracy. Might not be a bad idea.
     
  11. Kiech

    Kiech King

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    We can do an analysis, I suspose. But Republic was nerfed a bit in C3C, as our troops each cost 3, and we need a relatively large military to keep from getting smooshed.
     
  12. grs

    grs nameless one

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    I certainly explained that not building it there meant not building it anywhere near there. It will be long before the position hinders us, but you could move it now.

    @kiech: Republic was pushed in c3c as we get free military now. I would certainly revolt soon. Troops above the limit cost 2 btw.

    On settling (after our next wonder): would you still consider the cow/iron isle good? I would.
     
  13. microbe

    microbe Cascaded Mansion

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    I just asked the question about lux slider here. Worth a read. I would say Republic would give no worse happiness situation. There are two options:
    1. Revolt to Republic asap and stay there.
    2. Wait until Democracy.

    What do people think?

    I prefer revolt now. We may starve a bit during anarchy but not much. We can always merge back worker to capital later.
     
  14. Kaiser_Berger

    Kaiser_Berger Terran Emporer

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    I would go for Republic. I guess I just don't see the advantage of being a democracy. We don't need the faster workers with our limited land.
     
  15. Ankka

    Ankka Deity

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    Ok... I'll try to play today, so should I revolt?
     
  16. grs

    grs nameless one

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  17. Ankka

    Ankka Deity

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    Plan:

    - relocate Rostov ASAP
    - build market and perhaps rush it in Moscow
    - Revolt to Republic ASAP

    I'll be playing in less than half an hour.
     
  18. Ankka

    Ankka Deity

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    50AD [Preturn]: Switch Moscow to market, due in 2. No rush needed. :)

    MM Moscow for food, market still in 2.
    MM Novgorod for food.
    Switch Rostov to worker to relocate it.

    IBT: Some battles..

    Rostov worker > settler.

    70AD [1]: Some MMing.

    IBT: More battles..

    Moscow market > Sun Tzu's as prebuild.
    Petersburg spear > library.
    Novgorod spear > market. We need the cash.

    90AD [2]: Duh, the Indian archers block our access to Buffalo... the road will coma a little later...

    Rush settler in Rostov for 104 gold.
    Finally remember to revolt.

    [dance] Only 2 turns of anarchy. :D

    No other chance than to hire some clowns. And where possible, convert them to taxmen.

    IBT: India captures Konya. The troops continue South.

    Rostov settler > settler.

    110AD [3]: :sleep:

    IBT: We become a Republic! :D

    130AD [4]: Luxtax to 30% to prevent Petersburg and Novgorod from rioting... -3gpt, not bad, will get better after we get a temple in Petersburg and a market in Novgorod.

    Rush galley in Buffalo.

    IBT: WLTKD party in Moscow..

    Buffalo galley > library to get some culture.

    150AD [5]: Rush worker in Rostov, Settler would be too expensive compared to our income... or actually, decifit.

    IBT: Rostov worker > worker.

    170AD [6]: Able to lower sci to 50%, Mono still in 2.

    Noone has got anything to trade...

    190AD [7]: Science slider to 0%, set a lone scientist in Rostov, Mono still in 1. :yeah:

    IBT: We learn Monotheism > strt Theology @50% science, @+4gpt.

    Indians complete Sun Tzu's. There went our prebuild.

    210AD [8]: Switch Moscow to cathedral, due in 6.

    Rush settler in Rostov. The move shall happen next turn.

    IBT: Rostov builds settler and has no food income, abandon it.

    230AD [9]: Settle Yaroslavl' > library.

    Uh... I thought the abandoned square would have roads. Apparently not..

    Add the worker Rostov built into Yaroslavl'.
    The settler will be added next turn.

    Now the Indians block the Iron hill. Well, at least Buffalo is now connected...

    IBT: St Petersburg temple > library in 4.

    250AD [10]: Add the settler into Yaroslavl'.

    Yaroslavl actually needs a temple and some roads around it ASAP to get over the happiness problem
     
  19. Ankka

    Ankka Deity

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    Sorry, I forgot a screenie. :undecide:


    Here's the save though. :)
     
  20. microbe

    microbe Cascaded Mansion

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    A few comments:

    1. We can sell Monotheism to China for ivory+7g+13gpt. I think we should make the deal. We can also buy 2 lux from India with 12gpt. We should do all these asap (EDIT: see 4).

    2. It will be a while before we can work on Sistine Chapel. After Cathedral we build Colosseum, then probably some military. Please MM capital to use high-commerce tiles after that (coastal gives 4gpt instead of 3)!

    3. We still haven't connected iron. Whenever Indian units leave the tile we should send a warrior to occupy it. We need better defense. By the way I want every city to have at least 4 defenders, and some spare ones on our resources, and some horses for offense.

    4. India doesn't have horses. We should connect the second source and sell to it immediately (to avoid demand). India has some money that we can use. Heck, we can even sell our only source to it now, and get the two lux plus some money, then connect the horse. I perfer this because then we can continue to do the horses-for-lux deal in the future.

    5. Very good that our galley eventually reached the other continent. Make more contact!

    It looks good, but we need to go full speed on the next wonder. I want at least one of Sistine, JS Bach's and Copernicus, and preferrably two.

    I would also suggest we send a couple of spare warriors to the island to fortify around the iron to reserve a space for ourselves.

    microbe - on deck
    Kaiser_Berger
    grs
    Kiech
    Ankka
    TheNemesis666 - up
     

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