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Mic3 - Wonder Expansion

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Succession Games' started by microbe, Jul 22, 2004.

  1. microbe

    microbe Cascaded Mansion

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    preturn: Moscow is deoing 14spt with 2fpt, or it can do 15spt with 1fpt, or 16spt with 0fpt. 15spt is optimal in most of the cases!

    Since it has 14 shields already, switching to curragh is a total waste. I switch to horse and make it 16spt, so we can build it next turn. We can use barbs to promote it to vet.

    Retreat workers NW and move reg warrior to cover.

    St. Petersburg to rax.

    IBT China builds Zeus.

    (1)730BC: The bad thing is the barb horse enters Moscow radius and now we are one shield short of horseman! Reg warrior kills the horse.

    I switch horse to rax to get most of the shields. MM back for food this turn.

    IBT Moscow rax->curragh and MM to get in one turn.

    (2)710BC: workers go on to mine the hill.

    Very bad news: India has Philosophy! We have only 2 turns to go. That's why I usually don't go this gambit at Emperor level.

    But India doesn't seem to have got a free tech, so probably the other continent already got it. We have to find them.

    I then sell Writing to Ottoman for 114g.

    IBT Curragh->curragh.

    (3)690BC: Found Novgorod and start worker.

    India now has Map Making. So it is the free tech, but just didn't show up last turn.

    (4)670BC: Philosophy -> Min on Republic. MoM in 12 turns.

    (5)650BC: ZZZ

    (6)630BC: We find iron on the island.

    IBT Barb horse kills Chinese warrior.

    (7)610BC: Ottoman has Monarchy.

    Buy Indian worker for 104g.

    IBT Aztecs complete Great Wall.

    (8)590BC: ZZZ

    IBT Barb galley promotes our curragh.

    (9)570BC: reg archer kills a barb horse.

    India has CoL. :(

    China also gets Monarchy. I buy it with CoL+Philosophy+3gpt+339g. Monarchy to India for Map Making + 1g. Map Making back to China for 291g.

    I just notice that an American city was founded on the iron! :eek:

    IBT Navgorod worker->worker.

    (10)550BC: Kill

    India has over 1000g. It must have made a lot of money by selling techs. :mad:

    Tech wise we are OK. Only India is up Construction. Not sure what America has. Send someone to meet it up.

    MoM is in 6 turns. Normally I would like to build Great Lighthouse after that to delay AI continental contact, but with America already reached us probably it's not necessary anymore. If so, we can build Great Library directly.

    We are doing min research on Republic. We have 6 turns on MoM and with 18 turns on Great Lighthouse, so we'll soon run out of wonders. I am thinking we actually turn it off, and research Lit when we are ready for Great Library?

    Note if we research Lit, I'd delay it as much as possible (use Great Lighthouse for prebuild, research Lit till last turn and turn it off), so we can avoid AI demand it. In general, culture games prefer slow tech pace.

    St. Petersburg can switch to settler. If that's the case, workers can chop forest to speed up the rax. We can discuss which spot to found the next city.

    At some point (when it grows to size 2) we can capture the American city, but we need military for that.

    At last the biggest question: should we revolt to Monarchy? Republic is still a long way to go. Monarchy wouldn't make a lot of difference, but the cash rushing would speed up our build a lot (+1spt in Moscow, and make more food for Novgorod). With only 3 cities I'd expect no more than 5 turns of anarchy. If we choose to do so, we should do it immediately.
     
  2. microbe

    microbe Cascaded Mansion

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    Map:

     
  3. microbe

    microbe Cascaded Mansion

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    microbe
    Kaiser_Berger - up
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    Kiech
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  4. grs

    grs nameless one

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    In 2 turns St. Pete can be mm for growth again without slowing MoM.

    No double anarchy please, we may even risk to lose MoM.

    On our fourth city:

    1. grabbing land and ivory (my preferred):



    2. our last chance for silks (to agressive?)



    3. conservative cow grabbing (please move the warrior in St. Pete in the inturn to check ???.)

     
  5. Kaiser_Berger

    Kaiser_Berger Terran Emporer

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    I've got it, but won't play until later today.
     
  6. microbe

    microbe Cascaded Mansion

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    Comments on the three dots:

    I prefer a little to 3, but would move it one tile south to avoid too much overlap.

    Dot 2 is out of the question. 3 is a little too far away I'm afraid.

    I still would like more people to discuss whether we build Great Lighthouse or directly Great Library?
     
  7. Kaiser_Berger

    Kaiser_Berger Terran Emporer

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    I suppose it depends on if anyone learns literature soon. If we can build the Lighthouse without anyone getting lit and starting the Library, then we might as well try for both.
     
  8. Lenvik

    Lenvik Pathological lurker

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    *Delurk* Another reason to revolt is that MoM will trigger your Golden Age. *Relurk*
     
  9. microbe

    microbe Cascaded Mansion

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    The only ancient techs that AI doesn't know is Currency, Republic and Lit, so it's possible that Lit will come up soon, so I don't think we have time to complete both wonders. If that's the case, I'd go for Great Library instead of Great Lighthouse. But we can start with Great Lighthouse and watch it out.

    Really? Russia is expansionist and scientific. The only expansionist wonders that I know are Copernicus and Magallan.
     
  10. Kaiser_Berger

    Kaiser_Berger Terran Emporer

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    The Colossus has the expansionist flag, and the MoM has the scientific flag, so yes, We will enter a GA in my turns. I'm still not sure if that warrants switching to Monarchy. I'm not a huge fan of having two periods of anarchy.
     
  11. Kiech

    Kiech King

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    Sounds like we need to enter Monarchy. Do we have enough cash to spy on those building MoM?

    I like the ivory option, or the one not considered, where we land on the island and take the iron there.
     
  12. microbe

    microbe Cascaded Mansion

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    I wouldn't worry too much about losing MoM (and I doubt we will) - we can build Hanging Gardens instead (which is a worse wonder, but still..). If we'll get a GA we should definitely revolt, but our happiness would be a big problem. We will lose 2fpt during anarchy to avoid riot, which we can afford.
     
  13. Kaiser_Berger

    Kaiser_Berger Terran Emporer

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    Alright, I'll have us revolt. Hopefully we'll have a short anarchy.
     
  14. Kaiser_Berger

    Kaiser_Berger Terran Emporer

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    Preturn- I hit Shift-G and pray. We get an acceptable 3 turns of anarchy.

    IT- zzz

    T1 530

    I discover that India already has a settler pair south of Novgorod. My bet says that they're going for the ivory.

    IT- We lose a curragh to barbarians.

    T2 510

    Not much.

    IT- We become a Monarchy.

    T3 490

    Moscow workers are reassigned properly, and the Mausolleum is now 6 turns away.

    India has entered the Middle Ages.

    IT- India settles Indus right by Moscow, pushing our borders back a bit.
    India starts the Great Lighthouse.

    T4 470

    Nothing much.

    IT- Ottomans demand Code of Laws. I doubt we want to spend our GA fending off Ottoman units, so I cave.

    T5 450

    Nothing

    IT- St. Petersburg-barracks-settler

    Ottomans are building the MoM.

    T6 430

    I notice that the Indians did indeed settle the ivory.

    IT- Novgorod-worker-worker
    Ottoman sword appears south of Novgorod

    T7 410

    Nothing

    IT- India demands 39g. I cave.
    Ottoman sowrd moves away.

    T8 390

    Our warrior makes contact with the Americans. They are up Construction on us.

    IT- MoM completes, and we enter a Golden Age.
    Moscow hits 25spt. I have it start the Lighthouse for now, which can be vetoed or changed into the HG or ToA if needed.

    Novgorod-worker-temple

    T9 370

    Not much to do.

    IT- St. Pete-settler-temple

    T10 350

    Not much to do again. I move settler towards the cow location. America now has the Republic.


    Afterthoughts

    We're in our GA now, and at 25 spt, Moscow should be able to pick up at least one of the wonders available right now. After that I suppose we'll be waiting a while before we can build the Great Library. Another strategy we could try is see if we can research Literature in less than the 11 or so turns it'll take to build our current wonder. If we can do that, then we'll have a very nice prebuild ready to be swapped to the GL.
     
  15. Ankka

    Ankka Deity

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    I'm back. :)
     
  16. grs

    grs nameless one

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    Got it.

    I would really like us to try popping the hut on the isle north - while still in the ancient age - and settle on the hill between cow and iron. Novgorod could provide the settler and our new city the ship. Good idea?

    We are currently researching republic at min, due in 36 turns at +27gpt. Would it be worth it to speed it to 15 turns at -11gpt? It will then come in about the time our GA ends and we could revolt while still being small, hoping for a short anarchy again.
     
  17. microbe

    microbe Cascaded Mansion

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    Several comments:

    1. Moscow is not MM'ed correctly. We should go for max shields. This means working the hill and the forest which would save 1 turn off Great Lighthouse. Please do that asap.

    2. Lux can be lowered to 10 after MoM was built!

    I would like everyone to pay attention to MM (especially our capital). This isn't too much to ask with this variant.

    3. I actually would like to build Great Library during our GA. We can research Lit in 9 turns, and switch to it. America has Republic now. I'd like to get this tech by the Great Library asap. No revolt until the GA ends, of course. After that we should build harbor in Moscow, and build one or two galleys, ready to settle the island before going the next wonder. Then probably a library. I feel we may still get Great Lighthouse or another wonder after that.

    EDIT: I see grs' comment. That's certainly another possibility. I am just a little worried about losing Great Library. I feel since we are in Monarchy, we are not in a hurry to get Republic. Might just let it pop up from GL?

    It was good to have only 3-turn anarchy. With only 3 cities this isn't unexpected.

    4. Our next city should be the iron island. I'd like to settle on the hill between cattle and iron.

    5. I'd like to switch temple in St Peterburg to spear. We need more military, not an expanded border for a size-2 city! I see we are sending settler unexcorted, please do not do that. We should NEVER have an empty town - it just invites AI sneak attack! And you never know if there is barb camp in the fog.

    I've said it too many times: please do not ignore military.

    6. I would like to establish embassies with the AI. We have the money and it will improve their attitude and allow us to know the wonder progress. Especially America: it would show where their capital is and so we can send suicide galleys better. I expect the other continent is very close. That's why Great Lighthouse will not be as good as in normal continental games anymore. We may go for Hanging Gardens instead after Great Library.

    microbe
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  18. grs

    grs nameless one

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    1. At first sight I though so too, but a) it will only save 1 turn and b) it will cost us all growth which will slow us on the next wonder. So I think Lighthouse in 11 AND growth in 11 is far better than Lighthouse in 10 at zero growth.

    2. is correct

    3. Ok, thats a better idea than mine.

    4. same spot I suggested

    5. Ok, while I would mm it to more growth and spear still in 3.

    6. affirmative :)
     
  19. microbe

    microbe Cascaded Mansion

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    OK, I think that's fine, as long as this one-turn isn't important. But I would like to merge workers into it to make it up to size-12 asap.

    EDIT: I also see our workers are trying to improve a grassland in our capital. I don't think we'll have a chance to work that tile before going beyond size-12, so we should only road it and send it to road the forests instead. I wouldn't mind if we just merge the two native workers either.

    EDIT2: My previous comment didn't notice we were chopping forests at Novgorod (good move!)
     
  20. grs

    grs nameless one

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