Mic3 - Wonder Expansion

[Ankka]

I was trying to get Moscow to size 12, so I set it to max growth... it can after that produce over 20 spt, perhaps even 25.

I didn't think of occupying the iron hill when I had the chance to, sorry about that...

I mmed Moscow for the max spt with growth, and used the coast tiles too.

 

[microbe]

MM is very important especially on Moscow, so I just clarify what I think the general rules should be:

1. When we are building a wonder or culture building, go for max shields.
2. When we are not building a wonder or anything urgent, go for high commerce.

Like after Cathedral and Colosseum, and before Theology comes, we will not be in any hurry to build anything, so we should go for high commerce.

There could be exceptions, so it's more like a reminder than a rule, so people won't forget.

 

[TheNemesis666]

got it. I'm at work and will play when I get home. (and post in about 9 hrs from now)
Read your posts since last set briefly microbe, will read again tonight before I play.

 

[TheNemesis666]

preturn
trade mono to china for ivory+7g+13gpt
trade horses to india for silk+incense+70g
microbe suggested getting sistines asap so:
adjust sci80%, lux10%, +8gpt, 144g, theology 11t

260AD (1)
ouch, some of our cash deals expired:
sci60%, lux10%, +4gpt, 152g, theology 13t

IBT
ottos want an alliance against india, I decline
otto and india sign peace treaty
americans are building leo's

270AD (2)
MM moscow after growth for shields, get 1 extra but not change on cathederal completion date
india, otto, america all have invention

IBT
india are building leo's
the iron is clear!

280AD (3)
warrior rushes to iron hill

290AD (4)
moscow cathederal->colosseum
st. peter library->aqueduct
galley coming around eastern side of america spots dark purple border

300AD (5)
Novgorod market->cathederal
make contact with the iroquois, they are down lit, poly, currency, const

310AD (6)
we meet Aztec Galley, they are down Mono, engineering, we are able to trade with them but they have nothing available at the moment

IBT
china settler pair arrives on our southern border

320AD (7)
galley moves

IBT
china and otto sign peace
otto start leo's
americans are building knights templar

330AD (8)
yay, I can now trade with the iroquois
trade lit for gems+10g (didn't know what to give really, so chose cheapest sci, agonized for ages as it would give the lib's)
sci60%, lux0%, +20gpt, 202g, Theology 5t (could shave a turn off theo at the cost of 16gpt, but decided not too)
galley travelling round islands e of china spots blue border over ocean

IBT
German (blue) galley arrives on our eastern coast

340AD (9)
Yaroslavl' library->aqueduct (economy is fine so decide to get started on the aque before market)
contact bismark, he's down mono, nothing available to trade at the moment

IBT
Chinese are building leo's
India are building knights templar
Otto are building knights templar

350AD (10)
Moscow colosseum->courthouse (minor prebuild for sistines)
Buffalo library->market


Next player, make sure you swap moscow to sistines before the court finishes

 

[grs]

Moscow can get one more shield by working the mined grassland instead of the coast. That will give us the Chapel one turn faster. We should chop the not worked forest near Moscow to look if we can get a bg there, which could give us one more shield and save another turn.

It seems improbable that we will get another city peacefully. The Sistine Chapel will take about 28-30 turns to complete and India will fill the small island north by this time. We could settle on the horse, sugar, 2 fish island to the west, but it will be very corrupt. So the question remains - what to do with the settler? We may join it to Buffalo.

 

[microbe]

I haven't looked at the save. Too late and I have been debugging the whole night.

If we have a settler I'll merge it immediately.

Yes we cannot get a city peacefully now as expansion is over. We may capture one, or just live with 5CC.

 

[grs]

We have the settler for at least 20 turns. I built it on one of my last turns before Boston was catured. It has been shipped around since then.

 

[TheNemesis666]

originally the extra shield was going to complete the courthouse too early(i think), I forgot to check in my last turn.

edit: the settler is in the galley of the west of the iron island

 

[microbe]

Preturn: upgrade all spearmen to pikes. I feel safer now. We should have done this as soon as iron was connected. Novgorod is building cathedral while it's happy..why? I'll let it finish then switch to military. Please do not ignore military!

MM St Petersburg to get more commerce while still get Aqueduct in 3 turns.

Our horse/settler is on the galley next to the island. There is already an Indian settler (no escort!). I move the horse onto the hut hoping to pop some barbs, but we get map instead. Move settler onto the island to block the Indian settler.

Our capital is 32cpt. That's culture win in 578 turns.

IBT Indian settler moves to the iron.

(1)360AD: shuffle some units.

IBT palace expansion.

(2)370AD: nothing.

IBT Theology->Education.

(3)380AD: Sistine Chapel due in 27 turns. Ottoman is likely researching Theology as I am not even able to trade for Chivalry. So I sell it around:

America has a LOT of gpt, so I sell Theology for 92gpt+dyes. It turns polite.
Theology+4g to China for Invention.
Theology to India for Chivalry+30g.
Theology to Ottoman for 40g+1gpt since it will get it through Great Library anyway.

We may lose Sistine, but it's important to get knight. Only when we have strong military can we keep tech to ourselves and refuse demand! For now better just sell it, and we get some good money.

We'll keep researching and use JS Bach as a fallback if we lose Sistine.

Currently: Beijing, Istanbul, Calcutta and Washington are building Leo. Most of these cities are poor and AI is just 9-turn into it (TheNamesis666 mentioned India/America start Leo's), so we have chance.

With this in mind, I start 40% science on Education to get it in 20 turns. We are making +141gpt.

(4)390AD: India starts Sistine in Bangalore (size 6), Ottoman starts in Izmit (size 7 with lots of marshes and jungle).

I keep the horse on the island - India settled it but we could still settle on iron. But for now I send the settler home.

(5)400AD: America starts Sistine in Boston.

America has Gunpowder.

(6)410AD: Novgorod cathedral->pike. It's a two-turn pike factory.

(7)420AD: I merge the settler into St Petersburg and rush the market there.

I just thought that I could have switched Novgorod from Cathedral to KT a couple of turns ago, and we may get it. However, it might be a good thing not to, as if we build it first, Delhi might switch to Sistine.

IBT Germany declares on America.

(8)430AD: A bunch of Indian archer/spear enter our territory. I hope they are just returning home.

St. Petersburg is two-turn pike factory as well.

(9)440AD: Our horses online, I upgrade a horse to knight.

I rush aqueduct in Yaroslavl.

IBT Indian units indeed are just going home.

(10)450AD: India has Gunpowder too.

I renew horses for silks/incense deal with India plus 10g. I thought about buying Gunpowder so we could have best defensive units, but pikes are doing OK and we can buy Gunpowder later with Education, so I'd rather save the gold.

Rush market in Buffalo.
I also get spices from Iro by Polytheism.

I then switch Novgorod to worker as we really need more. It is a twn-turn worker factory.

We need to produce more workers and improve the tiles.

Let Novgorod run as 2-turn worker factory for a while. Currently it's 10fpt/11spt, and you can switch it between worker/wealth. Do not let the pop drop.

St. Petersburg should keep producing military. We have a lot of gold for unit support. We can also disband those regular units or warriors when we have a decent military. I'd like to see 3~4 pikes in every city and 10 knights standby, and a few more pikes to protect our workers and resources. Building a few trebs wouldn't hurt too.

Just as I am about to hand it over, I decide to do investigation on AI cities:

Instanbul: 12spt to complete Leo's in 31 turns. It has 3 lux and 3 clowns.
Calcutta: 15spt to complete Leo's in 17 turns. It has 3 lux and no clowns. It could grow (with 4fpt) but won't be happy. But it might get some extra lux from others.
Washington: 18spt and complete Leo's in 10 turns! 4 lux. Hmm, this is very bad. We will lose Sistine to the cascade (by Calcutta). So we have to get Music Theory in 17 turns. To be safe let's say 14 turns.

Note: India might get a GA with its UU, so be aware if India gets into war with anyone. In that case, we need to get to Music Theory asap!

Spent about 500g but well worth it.

I raise sci to 50% to get Education in 9 turns. Then we should research Music Theory in 5 turns.

After we get Education we should trade with India - it's the only AI that I don't want to fight. So keep it happy! If we have a decent military like I mentioned above, we can choose to deny Education from other AI, so we delay Copernicus to them. If they want to declare just buy India against them. But we can trade if AI pays good price (America seems to be rich).

We have a horse on the island. We can bring it back if India settles the 3rd city.

By the way, I don't want America to take over Germany, so maybe we should sell Chivalry to Germany.

Roster:
microbe
Kaiser_Berger - up
grs - on deck
Kiech
Ankka
TheNemesis666

 

[microbe]

 

[Kaiser_Berger]

Looks like we're progressing well

I've got it, and will play a little later.

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

I move the horse onto the hut hoping to pop some barbs

Not with an EXP Civ...

 

[Kaiser_Berger]

Preturn- We're looking good, all ready to go.

IT- India founds third city on the island. I send the horse in his way home.

Novgorod-worker-wealth
Buffalo-market-courthouse

T1 460

Not much. Nothing new for trades.

IT- India declares war on the Americans.
The Americans start Sistine's

T2 470

I'm guessing the Indians pulled a sneak attack against the one city that the Americans have on our continent. They may very well be in a GA very soon. I increase our Education research as a precaution. We now have Education due in 4 turns at 90% at +58 gpt

IT- St. Petes-knight-knight
Novgorod-worker-wealth

T3 480

Not much. I investigate Bangalore, the city building Sistine's. According to the tiles, they are not in a golden age, and the American city has been captured, although it's very possible that the Americans will land troops that the Indians could slaughter with War Elepahants. I'll keep the research up just to be safe.

IT- zzz

T4 490

Nothing interesting.

IT- Nov-worker-wealth

T5 500

I can drop our Education research by 10% and still get it in one turn. We got up to 73gpt.

IT- We learn Education. Set research to Music Theory. It'll be here in 7 turns at 90% science.

The Indians complete the Knight's Templar in Delhi.

T6 510

I trade Education to India as was discussed. We get Gunpowder, 20g, and 62pgt for it.
Since the Ottomans will get it from the G. Lib anyway, I trade them Education as well for 20g and 10gpt.
We have saltpeter on a hill south of Novgorod

We are even in tech with everyone except America, who is up Chemistry.

IT- Novgorod-worker-wealth
The Chinese are building Sistine's.

T7 520

Not much new.

IT- St. Pete-knight-knight

We lose our supply of gems.

T8 530

I renew our gems deal with the Iroquois for Monarchy.

IT- zzz

T9 540

Nothing new.

IT- Novgorod-worker-university
Buffalo-courthouse-university

T10 550

Uneventful.


Afterthoughts

We're 3 turns away from Music Theory. Once we get that, I suggest we go max science towards Astronomy. After that, I think we'll probably want to try to get Shakespeare's at least.

 

[Ankka]

Yes, Shake's is the must have- wonder for a 20k win. 8cpt is awesome, and if gotten early enough, doubles to 16cpt!

 

[grs]

Got it and will play later today.

Will go for Music - Astronomy - Banking (if it gets that far), keep Indian happy (besides being our bigger neighbour, they control virtually all of our trade routes).

Will build Bach's (hopefully) a harbor for Yaroslavl and some more military.

Workers will connect the salpeter and work/rework some tiles - especially near Novgorod since it is 12 soon and hospitals are far away.

 

[microbe]

We'll build JS Bach's in 10 turns. Then build/rush a university. We can build Shakespear in 20 turns. So we need to research Astronomy, Banking, PP, Democracy and FA in about 32-34 turns. That's 6-7 turn research in average. Should be doable. A little too fast tech pace in my favor though.

I thought about getting Copernicus first, but India has a 18spt city which can get it in 18 turns. We may have to switch to another wonder like Magallen (that's only 2 techs away).

I think I am ok with getting Shakespear, merging workers to get it up to max size, and then we'll be sure to get any wonders we want, like ToG.

 

[microbe]

There is one problem that India might build Copernicus before we get to it and end the cascade.

So we must get some other wonder tech first (Economics or Navigation).

Since we are still 10 turns away for JS Bach's, and MT is in 3 turns, we can do this: ignore Astronomy and go for Economics.

turn 3: MT, start on Banking in 4-5 turns
turn 7 or 8: Banking -> Economics
turn 10: JS Bach -> University, rush it
turn 12: Economics -> PP, and university -> Smith
turn 18: PP-> Democracy
turn 26: Democracy->FA
turn 31: FA, switch Smith to Shakespear and we'll build it in turn 32.

We can speed it up a bit if we are worried AI could cascade to Smith too, but I doubt it. Comments?

 

[Kaiser_Berger]

Sounds like a good plan Microbe. I say we follow your plan to the letter.

 

[grs]

Sounds good, just that Copernikus would be a great addition to Moscow and help our research enourmously.

I also doubt the research times you calculate. Banking is 1680 beakers and we just make 174/turn at 90%. So we will take much longer to research it. Same goes for Astronomy of course, but it gives us the possibility to build a wonder, while banking is only a prerequisite. Without Copernikus research we will fall back in research soon.

We should also not neglect the AI being very eager to research the lower path toward military tradition. And (last comment ) the two wonders on the market (Leo and Sistine) will be finished soon and all AI prebuilds will end. To sum it up, I would still go for Astrnomy first - or we will not have a chance to build any wonder

 

[grs]

PreTurn: mm St. Peterburg to grow again - knight will be there in 3 anyways; Nowgorod switched to worker and growth in 1
IBT: Mao asks us to leave his waters; Novgorod worker-worker
560AD: chemistry was traded around; mm St. Pete for more growth - knight still in 2
IBT: Novgorod worker - wealth; America completes Leo
570AD: Novgorod wealth - worker; mm Yaroslavl for more growth - market still in 1 ; research to 70% music in 1
IBT: music learned; St. Pete knight - uni; Novgorod worker - wealth; Yaroslavl market - harbor; India builds Sistine in Calcutta; we lose our dyes
580AD: retrade dyes for 13gpt (I would rather trade lux for other per turn goods than tech, because we risk losing the lux in the interturn if we trade for tech); Moscow to Bach's in 7

--- PAUSE HERE ---

Astronomy or Banking are fastest in 9 at 90% and +12gpt
There is no wonder left but Bach's and no one has Music - all AI prebuilds ended
Moscow will build Bach's in 7.

I would do Astronomy first: Bach's in 7, build uni 1 round, then rush it, start Copernikus'
Banking would mean we will have no wonder to build for about 11 turns (economics in as expensive as banking and astronomy).

I would like to finish tonight, but will wait for some feedback.