Middle-Earth: Lord of the Mods (part-hex)

[Fier Canadien]

Originally posted by The Last Conformist
Some Leaderhead and Great Leader suggestions:

Ossiriand: Denethor
B]

What relation does a Steward have with the Empire of Lindon? Or do you talk about another Denethor?

 

[mrtn]

I think that Hollin/Eregion should just be added to some more general Noldor list, it doesn't work as a complete civ. A civ with three city names (of which one (Moria Gate ) belongs to another civ) is not a civ, it's a headache.
I'm equally unconvinced that Lorien should be a civ, that city list seems to mostly have different names for Lothlorien wood, not real city/settlement names. I think Lorien also could be added to a general Noldor list. Or be the Noldor to which Eregion and maybe others are added.
Quantity isn't quality, my friends, I'd rather have some rock-solid civs than a big bunch of not-as-solid ones.
Angband has Lugbruz on the city list. Assuming this is Lugburz spelled wrong; this is just another name for Barad-Dur. So, wrong spelling, wrong civ.

Ossiriand: Denethor

At first sight I wondered about the sanity of The Last Conformist, until I realised that there might be more than one Denethor.

One way to treat Fangorn would be to let them build (let us call them) Huorns first, with the immobile flag. These can then be upgraded to Ents(offensive) in the fourth era. I think that the easiest thing is if they can follow the usual tech tree, it's just that all the techs are useless for them. Fangorn shouldn't be able to build workers or settlers either, just Huorns (defensive).

SoCalian, good work, altogether.

I'll end this really intriguing post by yours truly by posting a couple of techs:
Tech ID #: 64
Name: Warrior Prevalence
Era: 4th
Unit(s): 4th era def (men)
Buildings and Wonders: none
Resources: None
Worker abilities: None
Other Abilities: None

Tech ID#: 35
Name: Troll Breeding (was Olog-hai Breeding)
Era: 4th
Unit(s): Cave Troll, and ev. Olog-hai
Buildings and Wonders: None
Resources: None
Worker Abilities: None
Other Abilities: None

Sir John, I at least used one of your names.

Arathorn, PCH is working on adapting and updating your excel document.

 

[The Last Conformist]

The first Denethor, after whom the Gondorian Steward was named, was the son of the Nandorian leader Lenwë, and became king of those Nandor who eventually settled in Ossiriand. He fell on Amon Ereb in the First Battle of the Wars of Beleriand with many of his people, whereupon the surviving Elves of Ossiriand decided decided not to take a new king, and never to march into an open battle again. He thus was the first and only king of Ossiriand during the First Age.

 

[Sir John]

I like the ent idea socalian. What would be cool would be to make the ents have a special settler that could only settle in forests... I guess that would be hard to make... even with C3C..


What that name ur using for tech 64 mrtn? what does it mean? It sounds more like a early tech when u mention the word warrior..

 

[SoCalian]

Thank you last conformist for those Great Leader suggestions.

About the Ents: I forgot to add the "can't build settlers" line last night. I was too tired to remember. The ents would be just a singular city.

@ mrtn: I could see Hollin as part of Lorien. Celeborn and Galadriel were romoured to be the founders of it, before they moved to Lorien. Although it is gennerally considered to have been founded by Celebrimbor. Lorien should most definatly be included as a seperate civ from the Noldor. Lorien was considered to be a nation, and at one time a very powerful one at that. plus we need to have Celeborn as a Ruler somewhere.

 

[Sir John]

I agree that we should have lorien as a civ...

 

[SoCalian]

So here are the civs that I would like. * indicated city list arready made.

Elves
Vanyar Elves (Aman)
Noldor Elves (Beleriand)* (going to expand the list)
Sindar Elves (Bereriand)
Lorien/Hollin*
Rivendale/Gray Havens
Mirkwood Elves
Ossiriand*

Dwarves
Dwarves* (going to expand the list)

Men
Numenor*
Gondor*
Arnor*
Rohan*
Easterlings
Haradrim* (needs expansion)
Dale*
Bree

Evil
Isengard
Mordor*
Angmar/Nothern Orcs
Angband*

Hobbits
The Shire*

Other
Ents*
Eagles

 

[Sir John]

The only civ I cant see that belong here is grey havens...
wasnt grey havens only like one place only?

Ans what abot having the ents and eagles as a Gaia civ?

I actually think that the elves should be able to build ents. And that some civ should be able to build the eagles (but wich civ was most friendly towards the eagles?)

I know that it wouldnt be completely historicly correct but afaik the elves was at leats early in the first age good friends with the ents.. and what about having an entwife as a unit?

 

[SoCalian]

Could have entwives as workers. I also forgot Ossiriand, I'll add it to the list of civs I want. We could probobally combine Rivendale and Gray Havens. And about the eagles, I have good way to implement them that I will outline when I put up thier city list. The only problem for the eagles is a city list, but I am sure that I can dig up something. The major problem now is that there are so many culture groups, and only five that we can have. It may help though if I describe what I think the city graphics for the culture groups should look like.

Hobbits: Hobbit holes

Men:Very Castle/Fortress looking. I have found some very good graphics here There are also some vey use full vaiations at the same link.

Elves: Lots of trees with some Rivendaletype architecture thrown in for good measure. Because of the trees we could add the Ents into this group.

Evil: lots of towers, with a lot of "darkness" about them just so they look evil. Here are some that would work well.

Dwarves: They should look a lot like mountains, Because they mostly lived under mountans. The eagles lived mostly on top of mountains so we could put them there.

 

[SoCalian]

I know I have prety much taken it upon myself to make city lists, But If you have anything to add to any of the lists including editor flags, or Great Leaders please post them.

 

[[Ant]Wimp]

(first post!)

I was wondering... Were u ppl planning on creating a scen starting at the beginning of tFotR (meaning avery civ would have its cities fixed ie: Bree would be where it should be etc), or make a scen starting at year 0?

 

[tjedge1]

There will be several versions made. The 1st post on page one has several links and information there that will answer most questions. One version may have some fixed cities, 1 will be a random map, etc. I think most versions will begin in the first age which is several 1000 years before tFotR.

If I'm wrong about any of that, I will be corrected.

 

[PCHighway]

tjedge1, yes you are correct. But we are also planning a 'Quest for the Ring' Scenario, that will utilize the extensive information in the LotR, and many c3c features. [Ant]Wimp, *cough* we encourage any type of personal scenarios that will be made with the mod, or even creation before the mod is released. Feel free to take a shot at it.

Sorry for my long absence, things have been hectic. But rest assured I will make a long post that gives my opinion on every post since my last one.

Mrtn, the wonder techs are nearly in the mail .

 

[SoCalian]

You can expect some more City lists from me this weekend. What I would like to know first is weather or not the civs that I suggested previously are good. If there is anything you would like to add or delete or change in any way by all means say so or I will just assume that they are fine with everone and make lists for them. I would like some feedback, before I continue with my losts.

 

[Balrog]

Nice, good luck with the mod. I always wanted to see a decent LotR mod, I hope that you guys will make it.
Maybe I wont need to make it myself than.

 

[[Ant]Wimp]

I suggest u scrap the Bree civ. It would be too pathetic. And in LotR, Angmar and Angband would answer to Mordor, so they shouldnt be seperate civs imho.

 

[Dugall McKangis]

I've only just skimmed the thread a couple of times so far so forgive me if I've overlooked something.

As for comments on the suggested Civs.. I've just finished looking at the existing Middle Earth maps and there is no chance all of those civs are going to fit. Angband for example is about as far off the existing maps as you can get (outside of the Undying lands). Numenore is the same.

Basically you guys sound like you need a map of the entire continent plus the island of Numenore.

Caveats of a map this size as I'm quickly discovering, much detail is lost. The area in which LoTR takes place is very small compared to the rest of the lands. One problem I'm having at the moment that I don't think can be resolved for example: There really is no room for Moria as a city between Rivendell and Isengard. It could fit but there is no room for the city influence to expand.

I'm currently working on a 256x256 map. I have one other observation having played a map of this size. There is plenty of room for 16 civs to settle the maximum number of cities and still have land left over. I played such a map through to a diplomatic victory and in all that time not one single conflict broke out between any nations. Perhaps it was a fluke or perhaps available land for settlement is a factor when the AI considers starting a war? To that end I can't really say.

Since I'm already working on a map I would welcome feedback if you guys are interested in using it. The thought occurs to me that you can't really figure out all your civs and where they should go without taking the limitations and geography of the map into account. Or you'll be sorely disappointed when things don't fit right.

On the most basic level I'm really working on this map for me. I'll finish it if you guys like it or not. But if you're interested I'd be more than happy to work with you with it.

 

[tjedge1]

A large map could be made to have tundra and deserts unable to build cities on. I do this on my 320x320 maps I play in my random map mods. As long as there is plenty of desert and tundra, civs are forced towards eachother more. As only dwarves and maybe orcs will be able to travel in mountains, that puts another restriction on most of the civs places to build cities. A map could be made big enough to have detail and limit things like that to force civs closer and allow lots of barbarian lands(tundra and deserts). Also if there is too many resources available then civs will not fight over them. They will just trade them around. I personally never end a game without war. If nobody is fighting then I will use diplomacy and play several civs against eachother and then start attacking and causing a world war through alliances. That is a diplomatic victory in my book!

 

[Sir John]

I dont think we need a map that includes the undying lands. The ones on the undying lands (the valar++) Will not be in the mod.. AFAIK... Some of the civs like angband was supposed to be on a random map..

 

[Dugall McKangis]

Originally posted by Sir John
mod.. AFAIK... Some of the civs like angband was supposed to be on a random map..

Well where's the fun in that?