Middle-Earth: Lord of the Mods (part-hex)

[Sir John]

well, a map of all the continents would be to hard to make.. It wouldnt be very good becasue of the size..

 

[Dugall McKangis]

I didn't say I was making one of both continents. I would have to agree. I don't recall any of the planned civs being from the Undying lands. I only mentioned that continent in comparison to the distance another parts of Middle Earth which also do not appear on the existing Middle Earth maps.

However, a map of just the one continent can be made. As to whether or not it's going to be any good, wait and see. I imagine a lot of that will be based on what each individual wants to see.

If you want a map with the LoTR areas where the Shire has a lot of detail then no a map of the continent won't work since the Shire at the moment takes up about a 3x3 space.

I don't agree as to the difficulty though. Least no more difficult than making a standard sized map of the LoTR area. Which is about the size it seems to be taking up on the map I'm currently working on. It's just a matter of someone being willing to do a map that size is all.

 

[a_dead_rat]

Uruk-Hai should be a Isengard UU, and Uruks should be the standard age 4 orcs.

 

[tjedge1]

Actually Isengard didn't "invent" uruk-hai. That is a movie mis-conception. They were created in Mordor. Saruman Uruk-hai may have been created differently than Saurons but Sauron still had them as well. Someone had to lead the squabbling orcs. Saruman's might have had Dunlending blood mixed in with his. Sauron may have used a Variag or other Southron. I think Isengards UU should be a kamakazie orc that blows itself up when it bombards.

 

[Mithadan]

Good point, tjedge1. It is clear from the texts that Saruman's dastardly contribution to orkishness was the half-orc, that Dunlending connection you allude to. If we want to avoid movie misconceptions, we could avoid the kamikaze orc too and instead have a half-orc unit...maybe?

 

[[Ant]Wimp]

I think the movie-misconception is there for a reason. Peter Jackson probly had this very same problem. So eiter we follow the movie misconception knowingly, or use something like Half-Orcs or Goblin-men (as Gamling called them).
Or inall different like "Orcs form Orthanc", "Orcs form the white hand".... But that sounds stupid.

 

[Sir John]

I dont agree with any of u. The uruk hai of isengard should their UU. It should be a White Hand Uruk Hai. And the mordor should have the Red Eye Uruk Hai or just Uruk Hai..

 

[Mithadan]

Way to reason it out, Sir John.

 

[Sir John]

Well, when this many modders work together compromises has to be made.. not evryone can get their way..

 

[a_dead_rat]

Actually, in the books Mordor Orcs were just called"Uruks", and Isengard Orc-Men were called Uruk-Hai.

 

[Balrog]

What about Isengard Orcs: Uruk Hai of the White Hand ---
Mordor Orcs: Uruk Hai of the Red Hand

 

[Kal-el]

If the dead rat is correct then that seems to clear up the problem.

 

[tjedge1]

The orcs of Isengard were refered to as Goblin-men. And Isengard did have something to blow up the wall in the Battle of Helm's Deep. The movie just showed it as a bomb like object. Tolkien never said what caused it but Sauron's armies never used anything like it.

 

[tjedge1]

I think Uruk-hai is a generic term for Greater Orc. It doesn't matter if it's a goblin-man or just a superior orc, if it moves in daylight freely and is bigger, stronger and smarter it is an uruk-hai. Uruk means orc and I believe Hai means Greater. For example: Olog-hai is bigger than normal trolls and doesn't turn to stone in the daylight either.
Oops I posted twice in a row.

 

[Fier Canadien]

About bombs and pyrotechnics: In the 'Unfinished Tales', there is clear reference, in "Part Four, I: The Drùedain" that the Orcs from Angband (first age, mind you) had access to a fire that could not be extinguished by water , Greek fire if you want some historic example. That means that, reasonably, the research on this topic could have given some "explosives" in the very late Third Age->War of the Rings. So, the use of explosives in the battle of Helm's Deep can be plausible.

EDIT: Quote from the book:
Then Barach was shaken with fear, for the marauding Ords carried with them brimstone or some other devilish stuff that was quickly inflamed and not quenched with water.
Unfinished Tales, p.492, 1998 paperback edition, Harper Collins

 

[tjedge1]

I have that book and I'll have to read that again.

 

[SoCalian]

Explosives seem very plausible indeed. IIRC, the third age is soposed to corolate to be around the end of the Middle Ages in real history. Since there were shuch weapons in real life at about that time, and given the textural support, I think we should include a cruise missile type unit availible only to the evil civs at the end of the third age.

 

[Mithadan]

Originally posted by Kal-el
If the dead rat is correct then that seems to clear up the problem.

Yeah, but the dead rat is incorrect. Thinking "Uruks" are different from "Uruk-hai" is like thinking "SEALS" are different from "Navy SEALS." -hai means "people" while uruk (anglicised plural: uruks) means "orc." Pretty simple. Saruman's wonderful contribution to the world of devilry consisted of "blasting fire," which is pretty plausibly explosives of some sort (the Greek fire theory from Unfinished Tales being very interesting! ), but more importantly, half-orcs. I.e., half-men, half-orc. Sounds sick because it is. Probably would have given the movie an R-rating, so PJ might have had to skip over that part, and make his special creations grow out of pods. As handy as it could ever be, check out the Encyclopedia of Arda's entry on half-orcs if tempted. Pretty curt, nothing horribly erroneous that I can pick out. But then, I'm just little old me.

What are we talking about anyway? I've been away for a month. I noticed in the previous thread there was some fighting going on about whether to do techs before units. Did we already finish the techs, then, or what? Holy crapola, though, I don't want to have to read both them thar long threads. Too much gonja!

Bottom line: Nothing unique about Uruk-hai/uruks/great orcs/hobgoblins whatever. Both Saruman and Sauron had them. Blasting fire is probably too unique, because Saruman only thought of it at the end, and then he got himself beat. SoCalian's idea of giving it to any evil civ at the end of all things is probably the best compromise I can think of. Half-orcs are pretty clearly unique, and used en masse. Saruman's UU, then. There's plenty of other crud that would be unique to Sauron, if we really wanted him to feel special too.

 

[tjedge1]

Very good argument Mithadan. I agree that Saruman should have a Half-orc UU. Sauron could have the Olog-hai as a UU.

PS- This was my one hundred eleventeenth post

 

[Sir John]

Its actually quite simple:

Orc = Orc
Uruk = Crossbreed of Orc and what is known in norwegian as a vette. Its a orc kind of thing that is way weaker but can withsatnd sunlight and have great endurance..
Uruk Hai = Sarumans crossbreed of men and Uruks..

Sarumans Uruk Hais were stronger then Saaurons Uruks. This is also ilutsrated in the movie where u see that the orcs (uruks) in mordor are lesser then the orcs (uruk Hais) from saruman..

There is a lot of confusion in this era tough so I think the best I dea would bo for both to have Uruk hais only that Sarumans had Uruk Hai of the White hand and Mordor had Uruk Hais of the Red eye.. It would be the best way to solve the poroblem..