Celeborn
Silver-Death
I now honestly say that I am complety lost in this whole afair...
ie. I have lot of reading to do...
ie. I have lot of reading to do...
Middle-Earth:Lord of the Mods (XI)
- Thread starter Celeborn
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The Last Conformist
Irresistibly Attractive
Since Roquen simply is the Quenya word for 'knight', why not call the unit Elven Knight if we want pure English?
On third thoughts, I think we should mess as little as possible with trait names. I don't see anything questionable at all with Ind, Mil, Agr, Sea, Exp.
I'm, like everybody else, skeptical to Rel, but don't really have a good suggestion for it. I guess 'Adaptable' is the best we've had this far - we can completely rejig what improvements are affected, so that's not a problem.
Com and Sci could have a more M-e'ish feel, but I think they could do. Otherwise, the effect of Com is to reduce corruption, so one could consider renaming it something along the lines of "efficient" or "well-organized". "Orderly", perhaps? For Sci, the best alternative suggested this far is, without doubt, "Inventive".
On third thoughts, I think we should mess as little as possible with trait names. I don't see anything questionable at all with Ind, Mil, Agr, Sea, Exp.
I'm, like everybody else, skeptical to Rel, but don't really have a good suggestion for it. I guess 'Adaptable' is the best we've had this far - we can completely rejig what improvements are affected, so that's not a problem.
Com and Sci could have a more M-e'ish feel, but I think they could do. Otherwise, the effect of Com is to reduce corruption, so one could consider renaming it something along the lines of "efficient" or "well-organized". "Orderly", perhaps? For Sci, the best alternative suggested this far is, without doubt, "Inventive".
the mormegil
Emperor
Inventive's very good, nice one RRnut.
I have no idea about names for anything else though, I'll let you lot argue that over.
I have no idea about names for anything else though, I'll let you lot argue that over.
The Last Conformist
Irresistibly Attractive
Currently suffering from insomnia.
Apart from a vague agreement from mrtn, I got no reaction on this:
(I'm still advocating renaming the Lugbúrz Orc to Fighting Orc, BTW.)
Apart from a vague agreement from mrtn, I got no reaction on this:
Does no-one else see an issue here?
(I'm still advocating renaming the Lugbúrz Orc to Fighting Orc, BTW.)
@TLC: Yes, I agreed about that.
I'm also looking for reactions, on what people think about my shrunken dwarfs. Are they all usable? Is none of them usable? Did I waste my time more than usual?
Please take the time to download them and check them over in flicster.
I'm also looking for reactions, on what people think about my shrunken dwarfs. Are they all usable? Is none of them usable? Did I waste my time more than usual?
Please take the time to download them and check them over in flicster.
TLC, I don't pay attention to stats, but what you say sounds right: missile units should in no way be as tough as the main Offensive unit -- especially a Snuffler (or Tracker, for PCH) vs. an Uruk!
Fighter Orc is fine with me. I'd prefer Orc of the Eye, if Lugbúrz Orc is too much, but maybe that's too long and awkward?
Okay, gotta download them dwarves now! (Sorry for not doing that earlier, mrtn!
)
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Edit: okay, checked out the shrunken units, and I think you've done a fine shrinking job, mrtn. I especially like the Germanic Spearman and the Viking Swordsman.
I confess I find the Babylonian Bowman a little odd for a Dwarven unit. Oh well, I guess. I suppose I find the idea of Dwarven missile units odd. If anything, I think that Pole Slinger by utahjazz (?) would be a good pick -- I mean, are we going to have more than one Dwarvish missile unit?
Fighter Orc is fine with me. I'd prefer Orc of the Eye, if Lugbúrz Orc is too much, but maybe that's too long and awkward?
Okay, gotta download them dwarves now! (Sorry for not doing that earlier, mrtn!
)------
Edit: okay, checked out the shrunken units, and I think you've done a fine shrinking job, mrtn. I especially like the Germanic Spearman and the Viking Swordsman.
I confess I find the Babylonian Bowman a little odd for a Dwarven unit. Oh well, I guess. I suppose I find the idea of Dwarven missile units odd. If anything, I think that Pole Slinger by utahjazz (?) would be a good pick -- I mean, are we going to have more than one Dwarvish missile unit?
Thanks. btw the swordsdwarf is already included in PCH's unit lines.
Do you think it odd with dwarvish archers? Have you never read The Hobbit?
I admit those 13 archers sucked at archery, but they got a squirrel after some tries... 
Wow, my memory is great. I still can't remember that! Anyway, yeah. Good work.Originally posted by mrtn
Do you think it odd with dwarvish archers? Have you never read The Hobbit?
I guess the Mesopotamian dude doesn't seem as Euro as the Dwarves I imagine do!
The Last Conformist
Irresistibly Attractive
Why did Beorn have dwarf/hobbit-sized bows, anyway?
Why? Because Tolkien obviously thought it was no big deal to have Dwarves carry bows? He speaks of it as if it was passe, a given.Mithadan-
Hmmm. I'm starting to think this instance of Dwarven archery does not warrant us having a Dwarvish archer unit!
Or is it because you think Dwarves look so much more comfortable using atlatl to sling spears
? I mean, Dwarves are taller and stronger the Hobbits, after all.I would not imagine that atlatl's provide the best way to defend their numerous mountain strongholds for the small folk. We went over this earlier, so I think its pointless to bring up all the references again, but if you want I believe we found the instances where Tolkien mentioned Dwarves and the use of bows, as well as arrow-slots in their fortresses.
To help convince you, here is just one quote from The Hobbit:
"Thorin was the only one who had kept his feet and wits. As soon as they had landed he bent his bow and fitted an arrow in case any hidden guardian of the boat appeared. Now he sent a swift and sure shot into the leaping beast."
Thorin, at least, had some ability with the bow.
It may appear that the project is stagnant, but in reality Im adding all the units to the game. I think now might be a good time to discuss UUs. I will post a list of modified unit stats per embryodead (thanks for posting
) and Mrtns suggestion. Personally, I feel archers should be readily killed by a spearman, in melee combat.RRnut, I like your suggestions. Religious isnt for the Hobbits at all, however. So far the two wood-elven civs, along with Isengard (maybe) have it.
I like the border outpost, but it will need to come later than the temple. We dont want too much culture in the game, or it will defeat the purpose of borders. The sooner you get to the 3rd culture size, the less it matters. Perhaps it could be specific only to empire civs, such as (but not solely) the Noldo, Gondorians, and the Dúnedain?
Traits are not changeable in the degree you suggested. They come hardwired with certain bonuses, as you know. A Dark Lord by any other name is still a Dark Lord, after all
. So I dont see the point of messing around with the only changes you can make to the traits (buildings) as it will just cause more confusion.I will not go into the Militaristic trait. No doubt you read about people suggesting the names for it, but so far _all_ the baddies except the Southrons are militaristic.
I like the inventive Inventive suggestion
, but dont see a need to change the Scientific name-trait myself, it fits fine.I am strongly against molding traits to fit certain civs! What is the purpose of making one trait only available to one culture? To make LotM harder to modify when we decide to add more civilizations, or when we decide to give another civilization that attribute?
Traits should definitely be stand alone! The civ fits the trait, not the other way around.
Re:
Civ traits.
"I am strongly against molding traits to fit certain civs! What is the purpose of making one trait only available to one culture? To make LotM harder to modify when we decide to add more civilizations, or when we decide to give another civilization that attribute?
Traits should definitely be stand alone! The civ fits the trait, not the other way around."
understood. However, one thing -- Agricultural. I'm not sure what we have so far, but is there any civ besides the hobbits that gets this trait? I personally can't think of any that it would go extremely well with.
If we make this hobbit specific we can make numbers of buildings half price. Basically, It would help balance out the weaknesses of hobbits in units. I mentioned hobbit units, did I? I think that there are both too many and to powerful units in the listing posted above. that's an elementary criticism of the hobbits, other units may start there.
One other criticism. No elementary units. The Orcs get a 10 shield unit, the hobbits get a 15, no other civ gets anything else cheaper than 20. The dwarves are shafted with a 35 shield unit! every civ needs a basic 10 shield 1-1-1, or even 0-1-1 for the hobbits. This will fill the basic needs of the warrior in standard civ, i.e. scouting, basic military police, and barbarian elimination. Every civ needs. Needs NEEDS! a cheap unit for the beginning of the game.
(you might point to the dwarves and Loren in WH-mod. the Dwarves IMHO were incredibly shafted with the clansman as their cheapest unit. I've just finished one game as the dwarves and was incredibly helped by getting a halfling village nearby. even used them for MP in the beginning of the game)
Re: these units, call them Hobbit, Elf, Dwarf, Man, and Yrch (lower its stats).
I'll try making some more evaluations of these lists later on. Have an AP Physics test next Monday that's taking a lot of time,
RRNut
Civ traits.
"I am strongly against molding traits to fit certain civs! What is the purpose of making one trait only available to one culture? To make LotM harder to modify when we decide to add more civilizations, or when we decide to give another civilization that attribute?
Traits should definitely be stand alone! The civ fits the trait, not the other way around."
understood. However, one thing -- Agricultural. I'm not sure what we have so far, but is there any civ besides the hobbits that gets this trait? I personally can't think of any that it would go extremely well with.
If we make this hobbit specific we can make numbers of buildings half price. Basically, It would help balance out the weaknesses of hobbits in units. I mentioned hobbit units, did I? I think that there are both too many and to powerful units in the listing posted above. that's an elementary criticism of the hobbits, other units may start there.
One other criticism. No elementary units. The Orcs get a 10 shield unit, the hobbits get a 15, no other civ gets anything else cheaper than 20. The dwarves are shafted with a 35 shield unit! every civ needs a basic 10 shield 1-1-1, or even 0-1-1 for the hobbits. This will fill the basic needs of the warrior in standard civ, i.e. scouting, basic military police, and barbarian elimination. Every civ needs. Needs NEEDS! a cheap unit for the beginning of the game.
(you might point to the dwarves and Loren in WH-mod. the Dwarves IMHO were incredibly shafted with the clansman as their cheapest unit. I've just finished one game as the dwarves and was incredibly helped by getting a halfling village nearby. even used them for MP in the beginning of the game)
Re: these units, call them Hobbit, Elf, Dwarf, Man, and Yrch (lower its stats).
I'll try making some more evaluations of these lists later on. Have an AP Physics test next Monday that's taking a lot of time,
RRNut
I completely agree with RRNut that all civs need a cheap start unit. I've posted about it before, and I've had that problem in Drift's MoM mod. And in WH mod.
BTW, apparently both Rohan and the Northmen are agricultural too, not just the hobbits.
BTW, apparently both Rohan and the Northmen are agricultural too, not just the hobbits.
The Last Conformist
Irresistibly Attractive
Will the AI understand how to use a 0.1.1 unit? I seem to recall hearing it won't.
A unit has to have a nonzero number for both attack and defense in order to flag the "offensive" or "defensive" boxes (it also has to have the "capture" flag checked, and 0-attack units can't capture... which is probably why it doesn't work). That means a 0.1.1 unit will not be used by the computer as a defender, even if it's free.
Mongoloid Cow
Great Khan
Would a 1-1-0 unit work?
tjedge1
Writer of writerly things
Can't make it 1-1-0
It would have to be 1-1-1, and the Immobile option to work. Don't know if the AI would use that either.
It would have to be 1-1-1, and the Immobile option to work. Don't know if the AI would use that either.
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