Might Karl Rove go to jail?

[eyrei]

I have to point out that Clinton was impeached not because he had extra martial affair but because he tried to cover it up

Bush and his people have been covering things up since the beginning, but he has a significant enough majority in the legislature to ensure that, unless he pisses his party off, he (or one of his people) will never be called to account. Things may change if the balance of power shifts after the congressional elections in 2006...though I think that is unlikely.

 

[Bozo Erectus]

Since this is being compared to Clintons impeachment, lets make one thing perfectly clear: Clinton was persecuted for things he did in his private life. This Rove cover up is about national security, not fellatio.

 

[Neonanocyborgasm]

Most recent article I could find.

I'm hoping the truth of Rove's involvement or lack of it will come out in the next few days. Annoying to think one of Bush's best friends and advisors might have intentionally revealed the identity of a CIA agent for political revenge. I'm sure most liberals in the country would love to see Rove discredited, myself included, but I find it hard to believe he would do something that stupid.

Currently, one reporter, Judith Miller is in jail for contempt of court after refusing to reveal her source, but another reporter for Time Magazine has been released from his confidentiality pledge after the magazine said it would release what information it had anyway. A third reporter, Robert Novak, who actually first published an article with this information, seems to be sitting pretty. Some say this is because of his good relationship with the Bush administration, but again, I don't buy that because it would just be stupid of Bush, especially after knowing the truth was going to come out.

I think the recent "revelation" that Valerie Plame had not been undercover for 5 years is a comfortable convenience.

 

[IglooDame]

Since this is being compared to Clintons impeachment, lets make one thing perfectly clear: Clinton was persecuted for things he did in his private life. This Rove cover up is about national security, not fellatio.

And though I have no illusions that we're suddenly going to agree on this point, some people (notably me) feel that, as in the military, and for that matter some businesses lately, sexual relations with someone that works for you (however far down the chain they may be) is a professional matter, particularly when it takes place in your office.

 

[cgannon64]

Not really. It was the defendant's choice to pay his lawyer in drug money

I doubt a drug dealer has any other kind of money.

And, as for the lawyer: His defense, I'm sure, would go something like this: "Of course I didn't think it was drug money - if I did I wouldn't have taken his case!"

Very strange, it suddenly being you!

 

[wit>trope]

Seems to me the only legal question is whether Plame's identity as a CIA agent was classified.

That is not the only legal question. The law lists about four to eight (depending on how you count them) distinct conditions that have to be met for it to be a crime. Meeting one of them but not the other 3 to 7, means it's not a crime.

 

[eyrei]

That is not the only legal question. The law lists about four to eight (depending on how you count them) distinct conditions that have to be met for it to be a crime. Meeting one of them but not the other 3 to 7, means it's not a crime.

Sure, but the rest are met. Not that it really matters...no jury with a single partisan republican or democrat will be anything but a hung jury...

Which is why I would be fully satisfied to see him fired and disgraced.

 

[wit>trope]

Associated Press headline:

Rove Learned CIA Agent's Name From Novak

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050715/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/cia_leak_rove

Spoiler :

WASHINGTON - Chief presidential adviser Karl Rove testified to a grand jury that he talked with two journalists before they divulged the identity of an undercover CIA officer but that he originally learned about the operative from the news media and not government sources, according to a person briefed on the testimony.

The person, who works in the legal profession and spoke only on condition of anonymity because of grand jury secrecy, told The Associated Press that Rove testified last year that he remembers specifically being told by columnist Robert Novak that Valerie Plame, the wife of a harsh Iraq war critic, worked for the CIA.

Rove testified that Novak originally called him the Tuesday before Plame's identity was revealed in July 2003 to discuss another story.

The conversation eventually turned to Plame's husband, Joseph Wilson, a former ambassador who was strongly criticizing the Bush administration's use of faulty intelligence to justify the war in Iraq, the person said.

Rove testified that Novak told him he planned to report in a weekend column that Plame had worked for the CIA, and the circumstances on how her husband traveled to Africa to check bogus claims that Iraq was trying to buy nuclear materials in Niger, according to the source.

Novak's column, citing two Bush administration officials, appeared six days later, touching off a political firestorm and leading to a federal criminal investigation into who leaked Plame's undercover identity. That probe has ensnared presidential aides and reporters in a two-year legal battle.

Rove told the grand jury that by the time Novak had called him, he believes he had similar information about Wilson's wife from another member of the news media but he could not recall which reporter had told him about it first, the person said.

When Novak inquired about Wilson's wife working for the CIA, Rove indicated he had heard something like that, according to the source's recounting of the grand jury testimony.

Rove told the grand jury that three days later, he had a phone conversation with Time magazine reporter Matt Cooper and — in an effort to discredit some of Wilson's allegations — informally told Cooper that he believed Wilson's wife worked for the CIA, though he never used her name, the source said.

An e-mail Cooper recently provided the grand jury shows Cooper reported to his magazine bosses that Rove had described Wilson's wife in a confidential conversation as someone who "apparently works" at the CIA.

Robert Luskin, Rove's attorney, said Thursday his client truthfully testified to the grand jury and expected to be exonerated.

"Karl provided all pertinent information to prosecutors a long time ago," Luskin said. "And prosecutors confirmed when he testified most recently in October 2004 that he is not a target of the investigation."

In an interview on CNN earlier Thursday before the latest revelation, Wilson kept up his criticism of the White House, saying Rove's conduct was an "outrageous abuse of power ... certainly worthy of frog-marching out of the White House."

But at the same time, Wilson acknowledged his wife was no longer in an undercover job at the time Novak's column first identified her. "My wife was not a clandestine officer the day that Bob Novak blew her identity," he said.
Federal law prohibits government officials from divulging the identity of an undercover intelligence officer. But in order to bring charges, prosecutors must prove the official knew the officer was covert and nonetheless knowingly outed his or her identity.

Rove's conversations with Novak and Cooper took place just days after Wilson suggested in a New York Times opinion piece that some of the intelligence related to Iraq's nuclear weapons program was twisted to exaggerate the Iraqi threat.

Democrats continued this week to sharpen their attacks, accusing Rove of compromising a CIA operative's identity just to discredit the political criticism of her husband.

On Thursday, Senate Democratic leader Harry Reid of Nevada pressed for legislation to strip Rove of his clearance for classified information, which he said President Bush should have done already. Instead, Reid said, the Bush administration has attacked its critics: "This is what is known as a cover-up. This is an abuse of power."

Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist, R-Tenn., said Democrats were resorting to "partisan war chants."

Across the Capitol, Rep. Rush Holt (news, bio, voting record), D-N.J., introduced legislation for an investigation that would compel senior administration officials to turn over records relating to the Plame disclosure.

Pressed to explain its statements of two years ago that Rove wasn't involved in the leak, the White House refused to do so this week.

"If I were to get into discussing this, I would be getting into discussing an investigation that continues and could be prejudging the outcome of the investigation," White House spokesman Scott McClellan said.

Fox News headline:

Reports: Rove Learned About CIA Officer's Identity From Journalists

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,162583,00.html

Now there can be reasonable doubt whatsoever that Rove did absolutely nothing criminal. The law says that if someone conveys information obtained not from classified sources but rather from non-classified sources (such as Novak), then it's not a crime. Also, EVEN WILSON says that his wife was "not a clandestine officer" at the time Novak published his story. End of story.

But it's still interesting to find out who told Novak, now that we know that it wasn't Rove.

 

[eyrei]

Associated Press headline:

Rove Learned CIA Agent's Name From Novak

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050715/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/cia_leak_rove

Spoiler :

WASHINGTON - Chief presidential adviser Karl Rove testified to a grand jury that he talked with two journalists before they divulged the identity of an undercover CIA officer but that he originally learned about the operative from the news media and not government sources, according to a person briefed on the testimony.

The person, who works in the legal profession and spoke only on condition of anonymity because of grand jury secrecy, told The Associated Press that Rove testified last year that he remembers specifically being told by columnist Robert Novak that Valerie Plame, the wife of a harsh Iraq war critic, worked for the CIA.

Rove testified that Novak originally called him the Tuesday before Plame's identity was revealed in July 2003 to discuss another story.

The conversation eventually turned to Plame's husband, Joseph Wilson, a former ambassador who was strongly criticizing the Bush administration's use of faulty intelligence to justify the war in Iraq, the person said.

Rove testified that Novak told him he planned to report in a weekend column that Plame had worked for the CIA, and the circumstances on how her husband traveled to Africa to check bogus claims that Iraq was trying to buy nuclear materials in Niger, according to the source.

Novak's column, citing two Bush administration officials, appeared six days later, touching off a political firestorm and leading to a federal criminal investigation into who leaked Plame's undercover identity. That probe has ensnared presidential aides and reporters in a two-year legal battle.

Rove told the grand jury that by the time Novak had called him, he believes he had similar information about Wilson's wife from another member of the news media but he could not recall which reporter had told him about it first, the person said.

When Novak inquired about Wilson's wife working for the CIA, Rove indicated he had heard something like that, according to the source's recounting of the grand jury testimony.

Rove told the grand jury that three days later, he had a phone conversation with Time magazine reporter Matt Cooper and — in an effort to discredit some of Wilson's allegations — informally told Cooper that he believed Wilson's wife worked for the CIA, though he never used her name, the source said.

An e-mail Cooper recently provided the grand jury shows Cooper reported to his magazine bosses that Rove had described Wilson's wife in a confidential conversation as someone who "apparently works" at the CIA.

Robert Luskin, Rove's attorney, said Thursday his client truthfully testified to the grand jury and expected to be exonerated.

"Karl provided all pertinent information to prosecutors a long time ago," Luskin said. "And prosecutors confirmed when he testified most recently in October 2004 that he is not a target of the investigation."

In an interview on CNN earlier Thursday before the latest revelation, Wilson kept up his criticism of the White House, saying Rove's conduct was an "outrageous abuse of power ... certainly worthy of frog-marching out of the White House."

But at the same time, Wilson acknowledged his wife was no longer in an undercover job at the time Novak's column first identified her. "My wife was not a clandestine officer the day that Bob Novak blew her identity," he said.

Federal law prohibits government officials from divulging the identity of an undercover intelligence officer. But in order to bring charges, prosecutors must prove the official knew the officer was covert and nonetheless knowingly outed his or her identity.

Rove's conversations with Novak and Cooper took place just days after Wilson suggested in a New York Times opinion piece that some of the intelligence related to Iraq's nuclear weapons program was twisted to exaggerate the Iraqi threat.

Democrats continued this week to sharpen their attacks, accusing Rove of compromising a CIA operative's identity just to discredit the political criticism of her husband.

On Thursday, Senate Democratic leader Harry Reid of Nevada pressed for legislation to strip Rove of his clearance for classified information, which he said President Bush should have done already. Instead, Reid said, the Bush administration has attacked its critics: "This is what is known as a cover-up. This is an abuse of power."

Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist, R-Tenn., said Democrats were resorting to "partisan war chants."

Across the Capitol, Rep. Rush Holt (news, bio, voting record), D-N.J., introduced legislation for an investigation that would compel senior administration officials to turn over records relating to the Plame disclosure.

Pressed to explain its statements of two years ago that Rove wasn't involved in the leak, the White House refused to do so this week.

"If I were to get into discussing this, I would be getting into discussing an investigation that continues and could be prejudging the outcome of the investigation," White House spokesman Scott McClellan said.

Fox News headline:

Reports: Rove Learned About CIA Officer's Identity From Journalists

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,162583,00.html

Now there can be reasonable doubt whatsoever that Rove did absolutely nothing criminal. The law says that if someone conveys information obtained not from classified sources but rather from non-classified sources (such as Novak), then it's not a crime. End of story. But it is also a very interesting twist to the story.

In a courtroom, when the defendant says something happened in a certain way, does that make it true? I'll wait until the investigation is completed, though I will be upset if Novak takes the fall knowing that he can't be charged...

 

[cgannon64]

Oh man that is awesome if it's true.

 

[wit>trope]

In a courtroom, when the defendant says something happened in a certain way, does that make it true? I'll wait until the investigation is completed, though I will be upset if Novak takes the fall knowing that he can't be charged...

I don't think you read what was in the Spoiler tags because in it it says from the Associated Press:

But at the same time, Wilson acknowledged his wife was no longer in an undercover job at the time Novak's column first identified her. "My wife was not a clandestine officer the day that Bob Novak blew her identity," he said.

This is WILSON, not the "defendant" (Rove isn't a defendent anyway), who is talking.

 

[cgannon64]

So much for this being 'worse than Watergate'. Sorry, Frank Rich.

 

[amadeus]

Better luck next time!

 

[Pontiuth Pilate]

And that's why he's been lying the whole time. To cover NOVAK'S ass?

Uh huh.

Silly GOPers never learn; don't dig the hole any deeper or the trial will be that much worse

 

[eyrei]

I don't think you read what was in the Spoiler tags because in it it says from the Associated Press:

But at the same time, Wilson acknowledged his wife was no longer in an undercover job at the time Novak's column first identified her. "My wife was not a clandestine officer the day that Bob Novak blew her identity," he said.

This is WILSON, not the "defendant" (Rove isn't a defendent anyway), who is talking.

Not that that had anything to do with my point, but the law does say that she only had to have been undercover within the last 5 years.

And my point stands...I'm not going to assume Rove is vindicated based on Rove's testimony. That is just absurd. Wait and see...

 

[Pontiuth Pilate]

Not Rove, Rove's lawyer. If Rove himself said it that would mean (yet) another perjury charge.

Anyway, his cover story only helps him escape from the misuse-of-security-clearance claim. He still is admittedly guilty of passing classified info (Twice, now that he's admitted he confirmed Plame's ID to Novak as well, before he even wrote the column)... Not so "awesome" eh gannon? You seem to be having trouble processing this, but passing classified information is a felony, too.

Finally, (IF the story is true) the fact that he heard about Plame from Reporter X (Judy Miller maybe?) and did not immediately go to Tenet and tell him, "Hey, your agent's cover is nonexistent" is probably going to get him in trouble with the CIA folks.

And the fact that the White House spent the last two years lying about his involvement with the case means political consequences as well.

Oh, and, there's still the question of WHO exactly gave Reporter X classified info. Judy Miller was already on Rove's speed-dial. She spent much of the runup to Iraq repeating fantastical WMD claims/lies cooked up by the warhawks.

What it looks like to me (again, only IF the story is true) is someone in the Administration cooked up a plan to discredit Wilson (possibly without thinking about the criminal consequences), then rang up a few reporters (e.g. Cooper) and started spreading the story. The story started circulating in the media elite, but few printed it, thinking the claims were improbably. Novak decided he was going to run with it, but called up the Administration beforehand to confirm, which Rove did.

No matter what, the initial source of the leak has got to be somebody within the Administration high up enough to have the appropriate security clearance and a strategic grudge against Wilson. If not Rove (and it might not be, though unlikely) then who else is possible?

 

[amadeus]

No matter what, the initial source of the leak has got to be somebody within the Administration high up enough to have the appropriate security clearance and a strategic grudge against Wilson.

You want a witchhunt.

 

[IglooDame]

You want a witchhunt.

Democrats want witchhunts of Republican administrations, and vice versa. You're just figuring this out?

 

[Ayatollah So]

Let a hundred witchhunts bloom! If the press, and/or Congress, can hold Presidencies of both stripes to what they say, and/or hold them to the law, I'm all for it.

 

[Pontiuth Pilate]

You want a witchhunt.



I could just as easily say, You want the guilty to go free.

Although I suppose calling the special prosecutor's investigation a "witch hunt" is the next logical step in the Republican spin-mania. Tell me, when Karl Rove is indicted and then convicted, will it be a "high-tech lynching"?