Milking a Game

[EMan]

That's pretty darn frustrating!

2 comments:
1. In the "old" days, you could reload if your game unintentionally reached the Dom Limit, so many games in the HOF have been so reloaded. You could ask the HOF Police for dispensation..........a Very reasonable request based on the history of HOF Rules.

2. I use CRpMapStat in conjunction with CivAssist II when Milking. I like the detailed breakdown of which cities are due to culturally expand. However, I have learnt to keep a safe margin of DL points (i.e. up to 13) in case something happens that I didn't expect! (I.e. I expand into an AI's borders.) In the scheme of things, the price is small compared to that dreaded "You Have Won By Domination Victory!"

 

[Bartleby]

I really feel that reloading for accidental domination should be explicitly allowed, within reason (viz. once or twice in a game).

I do have a rather bad track record with this.

 

[AutomatedTeller]

Stupid thing is that I check a lot - I just lost track.

Interestingly, it's still a #2 on the huge demigod domination table!! apparently, all the others are failed milkruns, too...

 

[Elear]

Agreed. I have done the exact same thing as you before, and unfortunately those games were too late to have any chance at a 'fast' domination date.

As good as MapStat and CivAssist are, I find they are not perfect in warning you about this. If you use both, as EMan said, you can almost eliminate the risk of unseen tiles expanding your territory.

 

[rysingsun]

1. In the "old" days, you could reload if your game unintentionally reached the Dom Limit

What??? They changed this?

How on earth are they supposed to know you reloaded anyway? Heh ... not like I would do it or anything


edit> ok I found it: <<Reloading to avoid triggering Domination is no longer permitted, as this is easily avoidable>> (from the HOF rules)

easily avoidable yes, but I have to check 300 times on the remainder of my current game and one screwup and it's all over. I don't mean to be a complainer ... but I'm complaining about this. This makes me do significant extra work and what is gained by it?

 

[Marsden]

Technically, it's reloading to change events, so it was a mulligan to begin with. I'm not sure why this is necessary, myself, but that is the rule.

Anyone that has a "situation" of this nature can ask for an exception. The staff can be bribed. Please make all checks payable to Marsden.

 

[Bartleby]

What's a mulligan?

 

[Elear]

In golf, when a newbie makes a mistake, they are sometimes given a mulligan as a second attempt without penalty.

 

[AutomatedTeller]

It used to be hard to tell how close to the dom limit you were, so the standard way to know if you were over was to trigger the limit, then go back.

With CivAssisst/MapStat, you can know exactly how many tiles you have and how close you are.

If you want to run 5-10 tiles from the limit, that's your choice, of course, but to be safe, I usually try to run 20 or 30. On a 4400 tile dom limit map, that's less than %.5. In the game I was playing, I was within 10 and just forgot to

A) Check
B) Give away one of my crappy tundra cities.

The game was irritating me, anyway.

 

[rysingsun]

CivAssist, MapStat, Mapfinder .... they're all hacks as far as I'm concerned. Mapfinder is the worst. Yet these are allowed. I've never used any since I'm too lazy to figure out how to install and run them. Looks like I'll have to give one of these things a go.

 

[Elear]

They really are great (and none of them cheat too...) Mapfinder saves my time so I can deal with non-Civ things instead of sitting there all day long. So the worst is the best, I'm afraid.

 

[Denniz]

CivAssist, MapStat, Mapfinder .... they're all hacks as far as I'm concerned. Mapfinder is the worst. Yet these are allowed. I've never used any since I'm too lazy to figure out how to install and run them. Looks like I'll have to give one of these things a go.

They are all about balancing out people who have a lot of time to check eveything every turn and generate 100's of maps with those who don't. You ever play one of those online games where people with more money have an advantage? You know what they say: time is money.

 

[EMan]

Yeah, you're right about balancing things out......Money shouldn't be a factor in HOF games!

BTW, I have 3 computers exclusively running MapFinder 24/7!

P.s. On the "Exceeding Dom Limit" issue, if you "sail reeeeeeeally close to the wind", you can easily exceed the Dom Limit.

For example, let's say you put in new cities in a turn that puts you over the DL. Before you hit enter at end-of-turn, you settler-build-abandon-city so that after the interturn you've abandoned enough cities to keep you under the DL. The utility programs, quite rightfully, are not sophisticated enough to do this calculation, so if you manually mis-calculate the number of tiles you give back..........Oops, you lose.......I mean you win by Dom Victory!

That's why bribing the HOF to "re-instate" your game can be a practical matter! Och-Oh, we started talking money again!

 

[rysingsun]

They are all about balancing out people who have a lot of time to check eveything every turn and generate 100's of maps with those who don't.

Yeah, you're right about balancing things out......Money shouldn't be a factor in HOF games!

BTW, I have 3 computers exclusively running MapFinder 24/7!

 

[Ozymandius]

BTW, I have 3 computers exclusively running MapFinder 24/7!

I just finished my Tiny Chieftain milk run obtaining another mediocre score of 1,585.

To what would you attribute your higher score(2,238 pts as opposed to 1,871 in your submissions): a better starting position, smarter playing, or luck with GL?

I was gifted an early GL and used it for the pyramids, giving me a golden age while in despotism and two towns.

I'll follow suggestions and abandon my numerous towns but I detest that crappy orange cleanup required by hospital noxious discharges.

What is the minimum map type that you desire and receive through "Mapfinder"?

 

[AutomatedTeller]

the biggest thing that determines score is the dom limit and how fast you reach it, so my guess is that you had a map with a relatively low Dom limit.

Next is food, of course - that's why wet/warm is good. Generally better terrain, plus lots of jungle/swamp, which have grass under them.

Hospitals vs. non don't make all that much difference as long as you can max out population.

On a tiny map, as long as you can

 

[EMan]

@AutomatedTeller: Totally agree.

...To what would you attribute your higher score(2,238 pts as opposed to 1,871 in your submissions): a better starting position, smarter playing, or luck with GL?

Smarter Playing, of course!! ..........No, seriously, circa 3350 BC determined the outcome in the 2238 game. (Viz. Received SGL.)

...What is the minimum map type that you desire and receive through "Mapfinder"?

1. 60% H2O Archipelago, of course. Warm/Wet/5Bn. Sedentary Barbs, I think.
2. High DL. Looking at my records, in MapFinder I was checking for:
a. DL > 780 + 2 GCow + Fresh Water or
b. DL > 820 + 1 GCow + Fresh Water

...To what would you attribute your higher score(2,238 pts as opposed to 1,871 in your submissions): ... or luck with GL?

Yes & No!!
I would only continue the game IF I got an SGL (Pyramids, of course) at the first Tech discovery (Alphabet). So, theoretically, you'd have a 3% chance of getting the SGL in each game.

This early SGL, IMO, is the most important requirement in a High Score attempt at Chieftain level.

...I'll follow suggestions and abandon my numerous towns but I detest that crappy orange cleanup required by hospital noxious discharges.

I believe having numerous towns is extremely important. At Huge mapsize, I think you need to have 500+ to optimize your score...........and then merge them into Metros later in the game.

At Tiny map, I have some good news for you!! I think that 2238 score can be beaten without taking a city higher than 12 in size! Will you prove me right?

 

[Ozymandius]

I have some good news for you!! I think that 2238 score can be beaten without taking a city higher than 12 in size! Will you prove me right?

I'm just trying to beat your lower score. I have to try a monarch tiny cow first.
I find the combination of early war and slow development more to my liking then the quick win kill em all early games. However even the finish is almost an insult.. only a fraction of the killer scores. I don't want to get political here but I guess some societies give more rewards to hawks rather than cultural doves.

That's Civ.

 

[Ozymandius]

In 300 AD I'm 3 tiles from domination, the last standing Mongol has 1 city left. I have not had a GL to build any wonders and now in the last 30 years I have a military leader and a scientific leader at the same time... no army is needed and I just completed Bach one brick at a time.
It's tough climbing the tech tree when the populace needs 50% luxury to keep em happy for all these years.

 

[AutomatedTeller]

Forbidden palace?

And you can use the SGL for Cure for cancer in 1000 years