Minor Religions

[Dora190]

I like the minor religions idea, but i have a problem with the major ones. I don't like the idea of the first to discover the tech getting the religion. I'd prefer it if the religion was founded by a great sage creating the building. So you'd need to have the tech and a great sage.

Just a thought

 

[Endovior]

Great Sage?

Don't you mean Great Prophet?

In any event, that would be a really bad idea... religon is important enough that making it too hard to get (as with your suggestion) would be a bad idea. At the very least, it would probably stop the AI from getting religion.

 

[lorgen]

This might not be the correct thread to post this issue, but since it is about religions, I`m posting it here.

What really annoys me is that Cassiel ++ is rated as "agnostic" leaders, and because of this they can never adopt a state religion. The correct definition of this would be to gove Cassiel ++ the "atheist" trait.

An agnostic (Myself I`m a proud agnostic, and I`m still waiting for my little green master to come and tell me more about the most probable religion on earth. So where are you, Joda????)

Agnostic means that yo do not believe in anything until it is proved to you. Which would again mean that if Cassiel ++ was given a proof that e.g. "junil" is the true god, they could (and would) adapt the religion.

Atheistic means that you don`t belive in any god or supernatural power, no matter what, and it would be more correct to rename the agnostic trait to atheistic trait.

 

[BCalchet]

IIRC, the Agnostic trait represents not so much the non-belief in gods, but rather the belief in gods or similar powers other than the ones offered by the in-game religions.

 

[lorgen]

IIRC, the Agnostic trait represents not so much the non-belief in gods, but rather the belief in gods or similar powers other than the ones offered by the in-game religions.

Your argument does not support the fact that the agnostic leaders are unable to adopt a religion. If agnostic is the correct definition, then agnostic leaders should be able to adopt some religion if it is proven that this is the "right" religion. Perhaps with spread-restrictions (only state-religion which ahs given us proof.... spreads) But if they are to be prohibited from adopting any religion, atheistic is the correct term. Not agnostic.

 

[Nikis-Knight]

Cassiel certainly believes in the gods, in fact Junil was an old drinking buddy. (slight exaggeration). He merely wants them to butt out.
Auric Ulvin, however, would fall into BCalchet's description, though the "other gods" he believes in is himself, so he's not bloody likely to be convinced Kilmorph, Agares, et al, are any better.

 

[BCalchet]

Again, IIRC, Cassiel *knows* all the so-called 'gods' currently worshipped are false. He knows who the true god is, and why the true god is currently not available.

How is any 'proof' from one of the false gods going to change that?

Edit: Hmh, seems like someone snuck a post in there... still, doesn't Cassiel have some sort belief, if any, in the 'true' god who went missing for some reason or another?

 

[Chandrasekhar]

I believe I recall Kael saying something about how Cassiel harbours the Luonnotar, so he believes in the One.

 

[Kael]

Your argument does not support the fact that the agnostic leaders are unable to adopt a religion. If agnostic is the correct definition, then agnostic leaders should be able to adopt some religion if it is proven that this is the "right" religion. Perhaps with spread-restrictions (only state-religion which ahs given us proof.... spreads) But if they are to be prohibited from adopting any religion, atheistic is the correct term. Not agnostic.

Yeah, Cassiel is agnostic only as it applies to the religions of FfH (ie: he is agnostic as he is viewed from the people of Erebus). He doesn't worship the One or even speak about the One to mortals because the One has withdrawn from creation and Cassiel honors that. His one exception is that he harbors the Luonnotar, though even they don't know why he does it.

Someone once said he was "Anti-Theology" and that fits him pretty well.

Auric is Agnostic because he refuses to submit to the current religions of FfH too. I guess I use the term to say, of the choices the leaders have been exposed to, none of them are enough. But if the right one comes along they may consider it.

 

[Kael]

Again, IIRC, Cassiel *knows* all the so-called 'gods' currently worshipped are false. He knows who the true god is, and why the true god is currently not available.

How is any 'proof' from one of the false gods going to change that?

Edit: Hmh, seems like someone snuck a post in there... still, doesn't Cassiel have some sort belief, if any, in the 'true' god who went missing for some reason or another?

It all depends on how you define a "god".

The greeks worshipped gods that were lesser beings than those of FfH. There are relativly few religions where godhood implies omnipotence. Junil believes he is a god and deserving of worship (well with Junil its probably more appropriate to say that he believes he is deserving of veneration and obedience).

So saying they are false gods may not be right. They made creation, their power is only limited by each other, they are as godly as any polytheistic pantheon can be. The egyptians actually believed that their was another origional god who began everything and then withdrew (the theme is actually pretty common in ancient religions). But it didnt make their gods any less divine.

The difference is that Cassiel doesn't believe they are deserving of worship. But his real problem isnt with the "gods" (thoguh he does wish they would follow the ones example and withdrawal entirely) but with men that carry out all kinds of useless/barbaric acts in their name. He understands that the gods are little more than petulant children, but he doesnt understand why some many mortals worship them for that.

 

[lostkitten13]

um...kay, what I understand is that the "gods" are false because they require the obedience of people. Without followers and believers they are really nothing. And maybe the people that follow them is just looking for comfort, or reassurance and they need guidance...and since the "one" isn't there to help guide them, they don't really accept him, and turn to the "lesser" ones.

 

[Endovior]

The thing you have to note is: Agnostic leaders are SPECIAL. Cassiel is a fallen angel and Auric Ulvin is the reincarnation of Mulcarn (the god responsible for the Ice Age that has just ended when FfH begins). As such, they aren't likely to serve any other beings. They aren't the only supernatural beings out there ruling, but Sabathiel and Hyborem are loyal servants of Junil and Agares, respectively... so they're pretty much obligated to adopt their respective religions. Basium, though fallen, doesn't oppose the non-evil gods, but he'll gladly accept any of their worshippers who wish to join his crusade.

 

[lostkitten13]

but aren't the religions themselves considered nothing by Cassiel? because the "gods" of them do not compare to what the "one" is capable of doing.

 

[RavenXL]

Couldn't you flesh out the Pagans a little bit? Or make a natural (minor) Religion, lets think, about bloody war ("Ork"-religion) or elemetarism?

Another thought is, give everyone wo develops a religion-tech a disciple of the apropriate sort. So, you are not the founder, but you can spread the religion if you want. Also, you can have contact early with SOMEONE, even if you are far out in the ocean.

It is frustating if you play multiplayer, rush for a religion and you are a few turns short (we often play with 4-6 people). The next 200 turns you are 25% or more short (because of the happiness), and you are definetly short for all the other religions.

All the religions should be be already "present" in this mod, they only must be revitalized, or am I wrong? So, if they are already "present", why not "help" (i.e. develop th religion as the second or third and get a disciple?) a wandering disciple reinstate that religion in your country?

 

[Dora190]

Great Sage?

Don't you mean Great Prophet?

In any event, that would be a really bad idea... religon is important enough that making it too hard to get (as with your suggestion) would be a bad idea. At the very least, it would probably stop the AI from getting religion.

Your missing the point. I'm talking about founding a religion, once founded anyone can use it once they have the technology. But I think that the restriction of using a prophet, lets face thats what there for, to found the religion isn't unreasonable.

 

[thomas.berubeg]

If People are throwing Random Cults out there, what about:

Ride of The Mearas (sorry, i know that's lotr, i just can't think of anything else to call it)

Foundable by the Hippus, but can spread to all other civs.
Effects: if you have horses, it creates + happy in cities inwhich it's spread.
if you don't, - happy in all cities to which it's spread.

 

[thomas.berubeg]

I was wondering... what if after a certain amount of time, the existing religions break off into different cults, still worshiping the same basic idealogy, but with some minor differences. in the real world, almost as soon as Christianity was founded, it started to break apart.

sincerely,
thomas