Missing elements of cIV

[member66170]

SO over all, you're telling me I in fact am wasting my time when posting my ideas?

Where did I say this?

Let me clarify a few things:
1) Not all ideas are either brilliant or ****.
2) The most important thing in any strategy game is balance. ANY change that you make is going to change the game balance.
3) It is possible to rebalance the game after changes have been made but it is very hard. From my own experience its 2 hours of modding followed by 3 weeks of balancing.
4) Your replies to this thread have put you forward as an extremely unlikeable person so it is no suprising that some people have mildly flammed you.
4.b) You are the finest example of a hypocrite I have seen in a long while.

 

[Willem]

I disagree, I beleive after my additive tweaking, then the game shall then have reach it's optimum. I'm very glad you have reached the correct over all word encapsulating my suggestion.

Oh cut the presumptious language already, you're not impressing anyone. In fact you're just managing to make yourself look even more foolish. And it's spelled "believe". Here's a phrase I learned in public school, "i before e, except after c."

 

[BLOODYBATTLEBRA]

Lovely little flamewar.

This being the internet, everything should be taken with a pinch of salt.


Speaking of which, Absent Traveller, salt should take precedence over nearly everything you listed.

 

[Perfect_Blue]

Come on people.....Heeeemp. Ropes, sails, clothing, fuel....and uh, you know, so on. Can't make a rope out of salt

 

[Veteranewbie]

chiken* - Nah, too mundane to become one
elephant* - Got ivory, wrong idea though same thing
rabbit*, Beaver* - Got fur which is the most useful stuff I can think of it
squid* - I would prefer crayfish since it's appear more in shores area
shark* - Maybe, but I don't think it's as significant as whaling
Lumber* - Forest and lumber has a total different concept from other resources in this game so no
Clay* - Nah, too abundant and can't think of a use for it
Tin*, lead*, zinc*, Phospherus* - would be Ok if you can find units or something special that demand use of such resource (since metal in this game are mainly strategic resources)
Jade* - Included in gems
Cotton* - Yes, give it a shield bonus too
hemp*, cocoa*, tobacco* - Yes for Cocoa and Tobacco, hemp maybe too much. The two are the world major luxury resources being trade around
Herbs*, grapes*, oat*, barly* - Got spice for herbs (not the same thing but same concept), got wine for grapes, oat barley seems unnecessary
Plutonium*, petroleum* - only use for uranium in this game is to build nuke and nuke powerplant which are of not much use so no need one one more fission resources. Petroleum is basically oil in the game, no need to go linear on the definition


Instead of having so many new resources, I would actually suggest having new buildings that can derive different benefits for some resources. For example we may be able to build refinery if we have oil resources, or a textile factory if we have cotton, or a particle accelerator if we have uranium etc. to deprive more benefits of them (to counteract, perhaps make things require more shields to build etc.)
Or maybe we should be able to choose either one or other improvement for a resource i.e. a hunting ground or pastry for elephants which will allow use to get either ivory or warring elephants, one and not the other provided if only have one resource

 

[tombeef]

is it that hard to have a thread that discusses game ideas, instead of each others attitude.

Adding lots of resources does complicate placement. If you have twice as many resources, you now have to establish the importance and apperance of these resources. Adding more resources, for example, may decrease the likelihood of resources already in the game of appearing on a random map. I think the game is farily balanced as it is, and there are already a lot of ways to improve tiles (althought the fort improvement is pretty useless).

 

[GiantRaven]

I disagree, I beleive after my additive tweaking, then the game shall then have reach it's optimum. I'm very glad you have reached the correct over all word encapsulating my suggestion.

But there is that amount for a reason, sure there could be more but then there would be too many resources and it would unbalence the game

NO, it is me posting my ideas and therefore it is so a visible reflection of my rational ideum of creativity, that is on the internet now.

 

[SilentDemon]

chiken - too many food resources would unbalance the health system; chicken is mundane enough that designers decided not to include it
elephant - assumed as part of the "Ivory" resource
rabbit - see "chicken"
Beaver - see those little guys running around in the "Fur" resource?
squid - Arrgh! It's the kraken! Run! *ahem* sorry, yeah, there probably aren't enough diverse sources of seafood in the game. Let's have the seafarers play a part in food trade, too!
shark - Too many environmental issues around this guy. I can already see the picket lines screaming "No! Sharks don't eat people! It's the sharkfin-obsessed hairless apes who are killing the sharks!" *ahem* sorry, see "squid"

lumber - This makes some sense in conjunction with your below economic model, but for the game that cIV is now the shield bonus from forests is sufficient.
clay - see the first half of "lumber"
tin - Too many production resources complicate the game
lead - See "tin"
zinc - see "tin"
Phospherus - not important enough; you can get it from urine.
jade - the generic gemstones are sufficient

cotton - see "tin"
hemp - see "tin"
cocoa - too many luxury resources can unbalance the happiness system.
tobacco - see "cocoa"
herbs - These would probably fit in somewhere
grapes - They are part of the "Wine" resource; without a goods manufacturing model, separating the two is pointless.
oat - see "chicken"
barly - see "chicken"

plutonium - This is generally manufactured from uranium; see "grapes"
petroleum - see "grapes"

Now, with your proposed manufactuing model, most of these would make sense, but the fact is that such a model does not exist in the game. Good idea for "Ideas & Suggestions," though; try searching for the "Unified Economic Theory" topic if you really want to get crazy.

Good post, I myself think there may be one or two better ideas for missing resources (ones that were worldwide useful throughout history.) However the game is meant to try to be balanced as well as be fun, most of these resources would be relatively pointless, but if you want them, as suggested earlier you can always mod the game.

 

[pholkhero]

The one thing I somewhat agree with is the need to create a bldg to "work" the resource, e.g., turn the 'fur' into clothing ~ like in "Colonization". Other than that, the idea that we'd need to add just about any resource that humanity has found useful is a little strange. What about the potato? It almost singlehandedly revolutionized the modern world, just by providing the high calories needed to physically "do" the modernizing....should that be a resource?? and millet?? What about carrots and beets??

also, obviously the designers need to pick and choose just what to include, and, if you want a resource simulation game, go make one. expanding the system to include all the things you listed would totally change the focus of the game.

And WHAT IN THE F- is homosexual about "Congratulations, you've just hooked up your first luxury resource - chicken?" Do you play the game? have you never seen this pop-up??

 

[SilentDemon]

Ok, except for one, thing, I guess now is the appropriate time time ask yourself, to think this thorugh. To keep things logical, the resources are not just lying around everywhere, and ofcourse I mean the non-ambient resources(lumber, stone, fish etc.) The value resources, like copper, corn and horses.
Not only, is it a requirment to domesticate, mine or harvest a resource, taxing and waging payment initialized more directly towards the compilation of the ecconomy is a turn to turn responsibility. Bascially keeping the empire intact on it's own was no dire challenge for the king. MAking war and ever expanding to keep the nation growing and becomming stronger was what caused real establishment in empires through time. Domestic and international,
occurances. Plague and riot, civil unrest and all out war. THings like that pop up even when all seem to be well.

Crossing contact with lesser races alone may bare a deathbed for eachothers people due to simple hygene differences. A ratio factor of diplomacy compared to total time of existing relations with people over time creates a sooner or latter reached vaccination of foreign sickness.
Exploring jungles could yeild the possibility of some serious epidemic, someone just suggested that. Wealth does not neccesarily mean stable. For a fool with a million dollars may be quick to make another fool rich.

I suggest:

1.) Find a different game to play.
2.) Play a mod.
3.) Channel your analysis of what the game lacks to play better overall, afterall it should be simple if you've realized these things are missing.

 

[tombeef]

And WHAT IN THE F- is homosexual about "Congratulations, you've just hooked up your first luxury resource - chicken?" Do you play the game? have you never seen this pop-up??

This is actually answered in a previous post, at first I didn't get it either.

 

[pholkhero]

This is actually answered in a previous post, at first I didn't get it either.

ahhh, i see it. You're french quote, i think, hit the nail on the head, methinks. Not that i care, but, maybe accepting that part of himself would make Absent more rational and tolerant of criticism....oops, not you...raisin bran: "As we say in french --- Si le chapeau te fais porte le --- that means that if you get offended by what I say, It can mean that probably you have something to hide."

 

[SilentDemon]

SO over all, you're telling me I in fact am wasting my time when posting my ideas?

Yup, you got it

 

[pholkhero]

Yup, you got it

Yeah, what he said!!

 

[Lorkfudge]

If I may post my ideas without being attacked:

1) It seems to me that unless the game's economic system was redesigned, or the diversity of resources increased with map size, Absent_Travelor's idea of increased resources would unbalance the game, but more resources could easily be modded in.

2) I'm too lazy to actually find the quote, but Absent_Travelor said in one post that if people didn't attack his ideas, but actually responeded with questions and comments about how well it would work, he wouldn't attack people; but Absent_Travelor has shown the complete opposite of his own words and if anyone critisizes his ideas, he attacks them and calls them ignorant.

3) Absent_Travelor is completely wrong on the oil/petrolium issue, in the game the oil represents petrolium. But an olive resource would be cool, and vegetable and cooking oils are included with many other resources, and farms produce crops that produce vegetable oil, so if you want to take the game literally, it already has cooking oil in it.

4) Plutonium is man made, it IS NOT naturally occuring. Maybe a building in a city could make plutonium, it would require uranium and reduce the cost of nuclear plants and weapons, but plutonium should not be a resource.

5) These are my ideas about other people's ideas, I am not trying to attack anyone. In some forums there are so many trolls and flame-too-much-ers that it's necesary to attack people who insult your idea to stop the thread from being engulfed in flames, but at civ fanatics everyone is polite and civil, so Absent_Travelor, you'd get more respect and good responses to your posts if you didn't flame people, listened to other people's ideas, and accept when you're wrong.

 

[Raisin Bran]

this is making me mad!

I pulled a joke like the hundreds of jokes that are on this forum. By the way ... im not listed in any other forums anyehere on the internet ... especially because ppl here CAN accept jokes and can pull out sone great ones. I've started threads about serious Ideas that I had .... some ppl made jokes (as usual) but I did not flame anyone because it was funny ..... see my national sport idea where ppl gave me their ideas and where ppl pulled jokes.

all this to say to absent Listen guy learn to laugh and you will probably live longer, seriously ease down on the jokes if you dont find it funny IGNORE rather than to go all out insulting someone because they want you tou laugh. As I sayed earlier I<ve posted and I will post again I just dont want to get flamed I rather be ignored ...... simpler and more effective .

I dont want to be in bad terms with anyone here. I find ppl here are fun to talk with ... absent ..... I want to be able to post on your threads without having to check if there is the smallest thing that could offend you.

Hope you see that ppl want smoother talk here!IMO

 

[Commander Bello]

Although I don't agree with all of the original poster's suggestions, he is right in pointing out that the current model is far from being ideal.

Not only are some ressources missing (not necessarily the ones he mentioned, if you'd ask me, but anyway), but the economic model of the game is merely aimed at 12-year-olds. That way, it is already unbalanced, but currently favoring the ones who prefer the most simple combinations, to be honest.

Any enhancement in the area of economics would be very welcome.

About the bashing, I only can say that the OP didn't react very well, but the majority of people jumping upon him didn't, either.
Especially the two or three guys who crawl out of the dark every three hours or so to put some more oil into the fire

 

[MoonBase]

I appologize for any misunderstanding, let us leave all else in the past and start again.

In that spirit, what I wrote before:

A more robust economic system would be interesting, although personally I got a lot of that out of my system with Colonization. As that was a much smaller-scale game, having a more in-depth economic system was tons of fun. In CIV it might be just another layer of complexity (hard to model, to an extent too, without a much more complicated trade system). Would actually, it seems to me, be worthy of a whole other game... perhaps something along the lines of a combination of CIV, Europa Universalis II, Colonization...some other things too...

Heck, add in some level of city-state to nation development and a resource system that's based on amount rather than simple existence, and you're approaching my favorite game of all time.

Some nit-picks, intended as friendly pointers and not harsh criticisms:
Quote:
Animals- Horse, cow, chiken*, pig, elephant*, panther, lion, rabbit*, Beaver*, sheep, deer,.....whale, fish, crab, squid*, clam, shark*.

As was mentioned, there is, technically, elephant as you've desired already in the game. What's missing is alternate sources of ivory (walrus tusks? I can't think of a major source off the top of my head other than elephant). Alot of the small-game animals are already abstracted or are in the game, including Beaver specifically, and I myself would love to see more sea-based resources (and have. Check out the mods section. Lots of new resources already there)

Quote:
Solid resources- lumber*, stone, clay*,(all serve as general production and construction materials.
Marble, copper, iron, tin*, lead*, aluminim, zinc* Phospherus*, jade*, ivory, gems, silver, gold, coal.

I would love to see lumber somehow incorporated as a tradable resource, but in truth, I think it would require the amount set-up I mentioned above. There are forests all over the world, after all, and the only reason France (festooned with forests) bought Baltic lumber is because it was actually easier to get the wood from across a couple of seas than to deal with shippping it up some rivers.

Lead, while somewhat common-place, is also a big thing. Perhaps that should be the resource added for musketmen and riflemen and the like, rather than the sulpher/saltpeter/phospherous combinations the mod makers have been considering.

Quote:
Fertile resources- cotton*, hemp*, incense, cocoa*, tobacco*, silk, spices, herbs*, wine, grapes*, banana, dye, sugar, wheat, corn, rice, oat*, barly*.

Separating grapes and wine seems superfluous without the raw-to-finished product system you mention later. After all, one would not find wine growing out of the ground.

And honestly, I've always been a bit perturbed by the staticness of most of the fertile resources in the game. But then, I'm a Californian, and very aware of where our wine and olive oil originated.

And, as with other things, there are a lot of mods down below that have added most of these resources, as well as some others. The European Empires mod is a neat take on the ideas, in particular.

Quote:
Liquid resources- fresh water, oil, plutonium*, uranium, petroleum*.

As others have mentioned, you've got it a little backwards there. Petroleum is in the game, called oil. Non-petroleum oils are not in the game, but could be. Olives come to mind especially.

And the Realism Mod is working right now on a Plutonium addition. I even added a set-up in one of my own personal messing-around-attempts. Not naturally occuring, of course, and not precisely all that useful without different Nuke units in the mix as well.

And, as a final nit-pick, it seems a little odd to classify uranium(most usually found in a clay mixture, and processed a metal) and plutonium(also a metal) as "liquid" resources. Unless one is speaking economically, of course, in which case platinum could be used as well.

 

[MoonBase]

Just as a friendly aside:

NO, it is me posting my ideas and therefore it is so a visible reflection of my rational ideum of creativity, that is on the internet now.

I am a writer, and as such I have become accustomed to putting my day-dreams on paper and asking complete strangers to decide whether or not they are "good".

A simple fact of this process is the realization that if you equate a rejection of your ideas with a rejection of yourself, then you'll soon run out of self-esteem as the critiques come in.

This is the internet, A_T. You put your ideas onto it, in a public forum, where anyone who wishes can read them and comment. You have to recognize the difference between your ideas and you.

Just because someone is not a fan of one of your particular ideas does not mean they dislike you. Just because they criticize one of your ideas does not mean they are criticizing you.

If you continue to take challenges to the ideas you present, let alone simple discussion of them, as a personal insult, then you won't have much luck winning very many people over to your side.

Remember the saying: You attact more flies with Honey than with Vinegar.

 

[tombeef]

Remember the saying: You attact more flies with Honey than with Vinegar.

You also attract more customers!