MM1: Defiant Sid.

[akots]

... Personally I think we are doing ok, even if I did sound pessimistic in my report. ...

Surely, I can understand you. It looks very scary atm. And there is certainly nobody to blame. IMO, being optimistic is a great feature of a defiant Sid player... ( ) which I'm obviously lacking...

I'll try to do whatever possible to survive and build TGL. Cats might be absolutely useless on Sid if the AI decides to go really hard on us and there is lots of warfare. We need them in huge numbers and they would substantially add to the military upkeep cost. Their build up makes sense if there is a hope of surviving to atrillery which is the first decent bombarding unit. I'd prefer archers kept away from the frontline to accumulate and swords for active counterstrikes. Archers also have some defensive bombard that may be handy sometimes. Will play tomorrow or on Tuesday. Please post your suggestions...

 

[Mark1031]

I could go either way pults or archers because of the upgrade but I slightly still prefer pults. The archer only gives you the shot on defense and I hate to leave troops attacking cities. I think it increases WW and the defensive units still have to be cleared anyway or they will pillage so if you want to increase your % you will still need pults. I don't think we win before arty so they will upgrade.

 

[akots]

Preturn check. First, there are 3 additional city sites on our home island. I’m going to try to settle these. Second, Trondheim had a scientist. IMO, we better have scientist in some other city (Mulde for now since it is growing slowly anyhow). Settler goes to the northern tip of our continent. Nobody knows Literature yet.

Press Enter. Japanese and American galleys sail around. Trondheim worker -> settler, Copenhagen archer -> archer.

[1] 650BC. Alesund founded, building harbor atm. Trondheim has to build another worker to get on track for settler production. Workers spreading out from Aarhus. Worker joined to Bergen and TGL is due in 26 turns. There might be a room for another worker there but the luxuries would have been adjusted to 20% then.
IBT. Mongols and America allied against us. There was nothing to be done about it. Trondheim worker -> settler, Reykjavik archer -> sword at 5 turns and 6 spt.

[2] 630BC. Joined another worker, TGL ready in 22 turns. War happiness helps to keep the balance.
IBT. Galleys sail but mostly Japanese. Stavanger harbor->cat. Americans building TGL!! Washington is size 12 city!! Most of the plains around it are irrigated but looks like they would build TGL in about 10-12 turns. We are not going to make it.

[3] 610BC. TGL is 19 turns away from us due to another worker joined to Bergen. Persia demands Lit for peace. Zulu and Mongol do not want to talk yet. America is insulted by straight peace offer.
IBT. Copenhagen archer ->archer.

[4] 590BC. Japan has Monarchy. We cannot afford it though. Can trade Currency from Egypt for horses+26gpt+279g. Wonder if this would be enough to buy Monarchy. Anyhow, even if we revolt, there is no way to build TGL faster than America. Not my fault here.
IBT. Trondheim settler -> settler.

[5] 570BC. Just workers working. IBT. Mongols joined TGL-builder club.
[6] 550BC. Workers sail back to main continent from Aarhus. IBT. Copenhagen archer ->archer, Reykjavik sword -> sword, Oslo galley -> galley, Aarhus galley -> courthouse. Egypt building TGL.
[7] 530BC. Galley from Oslo kills American galley. America needs 120g for peace. IBT. Trondheim settler -> sword.

[8] 510BC. Bergen hits pop 10 and TGL is ready in 13 turns. IBT. Persian galley sails around. Birka Courthouse -> harbor. We get extension to the Palace because our people love us. Heh, there would be a very expensive Forbidden Palace in Bergen apparently.

[9] 490BC. Nothing much, all quiet.

[10] 470BC. Zulu ready to talk peace. We make straight peace because purchase of Currency would be too expensive and this peace is not worth much. Luxuries increased to 30% and income dropped from 31 gpt to 22 gpt. TGL ready in 12 turns. IBT. American galley attacks our glorious galley and dies. However, Persian galley unloads archer/spear combo and sinks our heroic galley. Vet sword redlines but kills Persian spear. Elite sword finishes Persian archer.

There are some possibilities for transfer but they are very expensive. Really, don’t know what to do. May be worth a shot but not sure. We had a chance with TGL but without it the game might be lost. Don’t know why no effort has been put in TGL prebuild. It is still 11 turns away. Guess, we’ll still have to struggle for a while. The score is not that bad, slightly lower than Japan and Arabs.

 

[Mark1031]

Wow so much pessimism. I think we're doing fine. Check out some other Sid games, they're not easy. Not getting the GL will be a setback but at least we're in the trading game. Once we get to Republic, with markets, we will be in the running. Change Copenhagen to catapult hit enter.

450 Trondheim sword -> pult.

430 America signs up Egypt against us. Persia lands warrior and spear near Aarhus. Vet sword beats spear loses 3HP. Elite archer takes warrior loses 4 HP no leader.

410: America completes great library starts Sun Tzu's. Switch Bergen to forbidden palace lose 121 shields. Persia will take straight up peace. I'll wait, the the war happiness is useful and they lack iron so no immortals.

390 Bergen forbidden -> harbor.

370 zzz

350 America lands 2 horses at Oslo. Both taken losing one archer. I should've covered the last landing spot up their which is now done.

330 Bergen Harbor -> temple Birka Harbor -> pult. Egypt lands one sword at Bodo. Bombard to one HP and take out with sword. (I've been building catapults).

310 zzz

290 zzz

270 Egypt lands 2 swords near Bodo. America lands archer spear pair. Bombard and take out 2 swords with no losses. However, I lose three swords, an archer and a horse taking out the American troops , 2 losses against a 1 HP spear . This was bad RNG luck but it indicates IMO a need for catapults.

Well this was not a very good set of turns and we did not have much RNG luck. We can buy currency but I was waiting for Japan to get either currency or construction for a 2-fer. I think we need to build up a good number of catapults and set a landing site trap (i.e. empty city) probably on the north part of the island. I was doing this with Egyptians at Bodo where we have 4 pults but the Americans haven't seemed to notice. We can certainly not afford to take the kind of losses that I took this turn. Also, the Americans and probably Egyptians will soon be landing pikes. Haven't seen anything from the Mongols. Persia will take straight up peace but they're not much of a threat and the war happiness is allowing us to run 10% lux. Hopefully we can make peace with others once there MA runs out. I would say the goal now is to first survive, get a currency construction 2-fer, get peace, get to Republic. Again as far as survival I would say we need to control where the troops land and build up a good set of catapults to reduce our losses. That is, for the moment we should play this just like AW. I'm not sure what the reluctance to catapults is. The archers IMO are useless and are just sitting around waiting to upgrade at a very high cost to zerks. I don't think we can wait for troops that land to attack us to get the archers 1 bombard. If we do the pikes and spears will just pillage us into the Stone Age. Will post save tonight.

 

[homeyg]

I got it, I'll have to play tomorrow.

 

[Aggie]

That's good homeyg. I like to see us discuss a couple of things first Mark1031 is right. I've seen more hopeless SID SG's lately.

 

[Mark1031]

Also, I haven't posted it yet. I'm at work but will post in 6 hours.

 

[homeyg]

My bad, I usually wait to pick up the save until I'm actually ready to play!

 

[anarres]

Hmm. Without TGL I presume we will start stealing techs?

 

[Mark1031]

Yes I would say a combination of steals, trades and outright purchases, no research at least for at the foreseeable future. Expensive techs like feudalism are definite steal material. Once we get Zerks I would go for Japan as that territory is very close to our capital and we can get some very nice cities going there. We may also want to take Egypt out of the running at the same time if that's possible so that we don't share the island. If the tech pace gets going too fast we could switch to an AW footing with pillaging armies on the leaders until we can catch up, or just wipe out a few of their biggest cities with Zerk assaults. Our biggest advantage will be the sea assault capability of Zerks and only having to defend against sea landings on the home front.

 

[anarres]

After reading Arathorn's Sid AW game armies seem to be very powerful for pillaging, although I've never found the need to before.

 

[akots]

IMHO, the game plan was to build TGL, save cash acquiring techs meanwhile, upgrade a bunch of archers, and go rampaging and leader hunting over coastal cities. It could have been worked and very nicely indeed. Now it would be rather tough considering the defiant flavor. Setting a trap indeed would be nice. However, mass upgrade of archers would be hardly possible.

Also, I should have stopped building TGL in Bergen as soon as America started it. The only hope was that they somehow would stop building it but they did not.

My point is that SG must have a good plan. Even decent players who micromanage a lot but fail to stick to a plan can defeated on Sid. Even if they don't fail, the game is not of great interest. It can be dramatic and interesting to read but it lacks ... thought ... turning into a sequence of turns.

Let's try to discuss a plan. Cats or archers, upgrade or not, attacks or defend, etc.

 

[Mark1031]

Yes I agree we had a reasonable plan that was thwarted in the middle of your turn akots, no ones fault there. I suppose we could have managed the GL attempt better but I’d have to go back and see how. I think we all agreed with the various moves that were made, at least I did. I was mostly neutral on the archer/pult issue but I just got disgusted losing 2 swords to a 1HP spear and that frustration made me reassess the value of pults in hindsight (always 20/20). Anyway, I’ve laid out my view of priorities and I guess we should all weigh in and come to a consensus on a new course.

 

[Aggie]

I like to see us being relatively passive until berzerks. Once we are able to build them we can start hurting the AI by taking out non-core cities, hoping for a leader. When we get this leader we can make a pike or musket army to pillage the lands of our opponents(s). I think that in general we would do well with this tactic. Pillage the AI to cripple them and use the berzeks to soften them up and pointy stick.

 

[homeyg]

Turns:

Turn 0: zzzz

IBT: Egypt tries to contact us. I tell them to go away. This is turning into a dogpile (as if it already isn't)! Americans and Zulu sign military alliance against us. Americans land a horse and a sword near Aarhus. Trondhiem: sword -> catapult. Copenhagen: sword -> catapult. Zulu begin Sun Tzu's. Americans begin Sistine.

Turn 1: I get rid of the new American troops with catapults and swords, not getting a leader or suffering any casualties. Our land is clear of invaders. No trades available.

IBT: Reijkjavik: sword -> catapult. Birka: catapult -> catapult. Damnit! Stavanger riots.

Turn 2: I raise luxury to 30%. Nothing much else.

IBT: WLTKD in Trondheim. Our palace can be expanded. Egypt starts Sun Tzu's.

Turn 3: zzzz

IBT: Egypt lands warrior near Bodo. Trondheim: catapult -> sword. Bergen: temple -> barracks. Bodo starves.

Turn 4: I easily destroy Egyptian warrior with nearby catapults and swords. No casualties. Just some other worker movements.

IBT: Copenhagen: catapult -> catapult. Reijkjavik: catapult -> sword. Stockholm: catapult -> catapult. America starts Knights Templar.

Turn 5: Just some unit movements.

IBT: Mongols land an archer near Trondheim. Bergen: barracks -> sword. Birka: catapult -> sword.

Turn 6: I take out Mongol archer with an elite sword. It's time to make peace with some of these people. We need to catch up in tech. Sign peace with America for 140 gold. I buy Construction from them for 888 gold and 11 gpt. We don't have enough gpt and gold to buy currency. Hopefully someone who is still in the ancient age will discover currency so we can trade. I went to the military advisor, and our military is weak against everyone except the Egyptians and the Mongols, who we are strong against!

IBT: Aarhus: courthouse -> sword. Bodo: harbor -> temple.

Turn 7: zzzz

IBT: Trondheim: sword -> galley.

Turn 8: Change Reijkjavik from building sword to building and aqueduct.

IBT: WLTKD in Trondheim ends. Copenhagen: catapult -> catapult. Oslo: temple -> courthouse. Japanese galley approaches our 3 city island.

Turn 9: zzzz

IBT: Bergen: sword -> sword. Zulu start Knights Templar. Mongols start Knights Templar.

Turn 10: zzzz

Well, I built up the military (especially the catapults) a bit. There weren't any fierce invasions. We should just continue what we were doing and try to get into the Middle Ages as quick as possible. We are getting farther and farther behind.

 

[Aggie]

homeyg, you made peace with America while paying cash. That is NOT allowed in a defiant game! We can make straight peace with the Mongols and Egypt...

EDIT: I don't think we are that far behind. I am up I believe but like to know if I should make peace with the weak Mongols and Egyptians...

I see our lux tax at 30% while 0% is also ok ??? We are throwing away money!

EDIT2: I'm sorry to be so negative, but we can make deals with Japan! They lack Constrcution but have Republic. I am almost sure that we can also make good deals with the Mongols and Egyptians...

 

[homeyg]

S***! I knew something was fishy about us not making peace with any of those guys! I'm sooooo sorry! I could replay my turns?

Edit: I had it on 30% to stop civil disorder in one of the island cities.

 

[Aggie]

homeyg: An island city can never be good enough to spend 20 gpt...

 

[Mark1031]

Yes Homey, why don't you replay essentially the same but no peace except straight up or we get something. We will not be pushed around.

 

[homeyg]

Okay, thanks for giving me a second chance! I'll get my act together and get right on it.