MM1: Defiant Sid.

[anarres]

Wow, that's a fairly decent stack of zerks.

We are 3 away from the nearest city and surely our army will get wasted before it gets close. If we declare on Japan and move our army in with the zerks can it make it to any city it wants uscathed? I've not had the chance to test armies in C3C properly yet, but this seems crazy...

 

[Mark1031]

Yes this is a flaw with armies in c3c that makes them very powerful. They will be attacked if they lose enough HPs so don't use them to attack anything, not that u would with a mostly pike army. However, at full health I don;t think a pike Army will be attacked until bombers/tanks . That's in the open. In a city they will be attacked.

 

[barbslinger]

If we declare on Japan and move our army in with the zerks can it make it to any city it wants uscathed? I've not had the chance to test armies in C3C properly yet, but this seems crazy...

/delurk - You can put any unit or any size group of units under the C3C army "umbrella". The other AI will not attack it. The only time I have heard of an attack is if the opposing AI is alone on their own continent and only have your army as opposition. No other AI around. I have not seen an army attacked yet under those circumstances. Just put all those zerks underneath and sashay right up to his front door, pillaging as you go. Have fun. /relurking

 

[akots]

This army we have will last for a while until Modern Armor probably. Just keep it green preferably not losing any hit points. It can be used to pillage around and as un umbrella to keep our zerks underneath. IMHO, it is an exploit, not better than a TGL trick. But what other options do we have?

 

[Aggie]

I don't like the word exploit. It fires up a debate with a lot of emotions, while this is a subjective matter. I also don't like the fact that armies are safe vs the AI (although I highly doubt that tanks won't attack it, especially since the AI certainly bombards these units). But in this game, defiant Sid, I don't think that we have the luxury to NOT use armies imvho. Regarding TGL: I see it as a last resort option.

 

[anarres]

Well in that case I think we should start the war on Japan this turn and go pillaging. In 3 turns we can take the capital and shortly after we can take the other main cities. I wouldn't "fill in" any gaps until we have taken out most of the Japanese forces, since this would incur the wrath of ALL Japans units.

 

[Aggie]

Did you all notice how the core of the Egyptian empire shifted from the Japanese island to the North West? Amazingly they are doing pretty well for refugees.

 

[anarres]

Yeah, Japan is scary to take Egypt out like that.

 

[anarres]

I just thought, is there any reason not to try a steal from Japan before we declare war? It could be a good way to get a tech without worrying about consequences.

 

[Aggie]

We haven't got the money at the moment. I spent it all on zerk-upgrades (150 gold per zerk). We need another turn for an immediate steal and 3 turns for a careful steal.

 

[anarres]

Do you think it's worth waiting a turn for an immediate steal?

 

[Aggie]

The chances of success are about 50% (EDIT: 25% ). And there's also a chance that we fail, but don't get noticed. That would be the worst outcome. I Think that the Japanese will ask to renew the peace deal in the next IT. Breaking a straight per turn deal isn't a big deal, but it's a little strange at least to break it within a turn. I would not steal from the Japanese for these reasons.

 

[Mark1031]

I would do immediate no need for careful as we want war if we fail and i don't think it increases chances for success but just decreases chance of war to go careful

 

[Aggie]

I would do immediate no need for careful as we want war if we fail and i don't think it increases chances for success but just decreases chance of war to go careful

Careful DOES increase chances of success.

 

[Mark1031]

That's good to know. Do you know how much? I read here, I don't remember where that it didn't.

 

[Aggie]

The result of a basic test can be found here (PTW): Tech Stealing

I still wouldn't try to steal from Japan, but attack and pointy-stick research.

 

[Aggie]

I agree with the plan to attack Kyoto. It has the Pyramids and therefore is very valuable for the Japs. But we need more trebs there. These can easily be transported to the wine tile of Japan. The tile that we want to occupy next turn anyway.

Regarding immediate steals: I was wrong in my previous post. The chances are about 25%. They are 50% for a careful steal (tested in PTW).

 

[anarres]

I just noticed 3 Beserks with no movement. I will start the invasion in turn 1 (rather than the preturn).

Playing now. And a HUGE thanks to Aggie who has so nicely set this up for me!

 

[anarres]

preturn (690AD): Change Oslo from Beserk to Granary. It is size 7 and has a max +2 food. Molde changes from Beserk to Harbor.

I decide not to start war on Japan this turn, since we have 3 beserks with no move.

AI: The Mongols and ?? have singed an MPP.

Japan renegotiates peace and I refuse. Japan sends nothing at the SoD.


Turn 1 (700AD): Set Stavanger to Temple.

A couple more trebs/zerks move to the Japanese wines via galleys.


AI: Mongols and Persia sign Embargo against us. Some AI movement near our stack, but strangely more moving N than S.


Turn 2 (710AD): Move another 8 units in to the SoD. We are now next to Kyoto.

AI: America declares war on the Zulu.


Turn 3 (720AD): 14 trebs bombard Kyoto:

7 miss
7x -1 hp

After taking 7 Samarui from 4/4 tp 3/4 we can see a 3/4 Samarui. With 7 Samaraui and several other units this is a large force. Still, there are no muskets. I attack with the zerks:

4 zerks die
7 samarui are killed

We also get a leader when an elite zerk took out a redlined samarui!

The city is ours! Since it would get attacked this turn and be undefendable I decide to raze it. Losing the Pyramids is no great loss when you consider it how many units we would lose defending it.

AI: Mongols and America sign Embargo against us.


Turn 4 (730AD): :zzz:

AI: Mongol settler/longbow lands on the Jap coal where Kyoto used to be.


Turn 5 (740AD): Our SoD is next to Osaka, the injured units have been sent home to heal.

AI: Funny! The Mongols build a city on the ap Iron site and the wines get connected through their empire. Since there is no harbour they must be using Japan's harbours for it!


Turn 6 (740AD): I use the leader for a second army back in Trondheim.

17 Trebs bombard Osaka:

10 miss
7 hit

The zerks attack:

2 zerks die
3 samarui are killed

The next samarui is (I think) the last defending unit. I will wait until tomorrow.

I was going to take this city to allow us to get closer to Edo (then disband the same turn or a turn later), but I want to know if that is allowed in the rules.

 

[Mark1031]

It is allowed but I've been told it p;roduces unhappiness and that is therefore better to just raze. Can anyone verify this? Maybe it's only whip unhappiness which should be negliable.