mm14: Honorable Peaceniks Emp.

[Mark1031]

Bezhukov is up.
Woobi On deck

ON strat I like going for Alphabet and trading around. Also I would like to get to cats and then provoke Cyrus to attack. We will need a goodly number of axes and spears. He would have to be #1. but to expand we will really need to take him on and get some iron for swords. I think we should try to do this before longbows.

Also would raise and replace barb city. We are cultural and hemmed in. We cant afford suboptimal cities.

 

[uberfish]

I think Cyrus was the worst possible neighbour we could have had, with Expansive he goes for jungle sites early and Creative means we can't just use our own creative bonus to culture push him. He is also a relatively peaceful AI and provoking a war may be difficult as there has been no religious spread yet.

There is a different approach we could try that would does not involve war with Cyrus and that is cultural victory since we have 3 good city sites and 3 or so crappy ones right now. There's a handy desert buffer to our northeast so we won't have border tensions with more than 1 opponent, both our traits would support it and I think we have enough resources to make it a viable winning strategy. I think it would avoid a lot of the uncertainty in the 'provoke war with Cyrus' plan. If we want to go that route, then we would need to commit to it soon (around the time we finish researching Alphabet) because it would require a drastically different development plan.

The more I think about it the more I like it, since it would be more in keeping with the title of the SG than setting a trap for Cyrus to attack us so we can annex his cities. Let me know what you think.

Agree on razing barb city either way.

 

[Mark1031]

I could see trying for cultural but it is such a major commitment to a path early that it worries me a bit. You tend to fall behind in military tech later in the game and in Emp/Pangaea this worries me. I wouldn't mind cultural maybe after an early war with Cyrus to give us some room. We can make demands of him if and if he is not pleased this will drive up to -10 relation points to make him very annoyed. I think if we just go with what land is available to us here we won't have enough to make it research/production wise. And the land Cyrus grabbed is rather nice.

 

[Mark1031]

No word from Bezhukov. Let's do a skip

Woobi UP

 

[Woobi]

K got it, will play tonight or tommorow...

 

[Mutineer]

To be true, I am really confused why we reseached Iron working and sayling if you are not beelining to Calendar.

We have cooper for defence and we can not declare war.
Befor wasening our relationship with cyrys we should explore the word. WE currently did very limited exploration.
It is actially better to be in a good term with him and go to war at request of other far away civ. If some other civ not to far away we can even go over him or join him.

 

[Mark1031]

Looks like Woobi is MIA. Let's do a skip to put

Mutineer UP.

Bild ON Deck.

Woobi and Bezukov could you check in an let us know your status.

 

[Mutineer]

OK, I played my turns and there are bad news.
First, 2 remaining axes fail to take barbarian city and die.
That give me a stop. after looking I come to conclusion that we still can take this city, but need reinforcments. I took bouth warriors from second city and send them to help, why fortifying 2 ramaining damaget by promoted axes.
2 turns later I attack with warriors and axes. They all die exept last axe finally taking barbarian city. I raise it.
In a mean time barbarian archer went to our second city, forcing me to whipe axe there.

That put pause of any expancion plan. I build city, but after thinking I took a bit probably contravercial decision.
I build city on Dyes.
My reasoning, we need to have 2 gems online ASAP in order to finance our rush to Calendar.
Only this position create coastal city that could work 2 gems and Rice providing food for working 2 gems. I believe it is a correct decision.

The rest of turns I was building axes and Setlers.

Setler is near intedded stone city site (picture provided)

I think it would be a disent city and it would claim stone and some coast and land.

Research wize I went to Calendar direction.
Writing-Math-Calendar.

I believe it is correct action, as calendar will give as instant commerce/happiness boust.

One more setler in build in order to claim down from capital silk site.
Workers connecting gems. We need a bit more workers.

 

[blid]

Ok, got it

Here are some of my thoughts for the turnset. So feel free to point out in decisions

- In Heliopolis, granray and growth are due same turn. So I will MM a bit to grow one turn after the granary. Then whip a workboat there for the northern city and then start a lib

- Berlin settler goes to silk spot. City starts spear while growing (3t) then begin worker

- Memphis goes axe->axe

- Northern city with fish and stone begins galley (pbly whipped when possible). Hope there's some iron on the esatern island

Mansa has 4 units on Cyrus iron. what the hell is he doing there ? Emp level = exploring with a pack of 4 ?

 

[Mutineer]

I would not whipe anything in Heliopolis, as it is better it would work 2 gems, and 2 workers will hook up secong gem in no time. Just let it build fish boat naturally.

 

[blid]

Turn 91 (600 BC)
Elephantine founded on the spot designated by Mutineer
Decide to go for a work boat.
Elephantine begins: Work Boat

Send axe to visit barb city north

IBT:

Turn 92 (575 BC)
Blid: Mine on gems done. Calendar goes from 14 to 12

IBT:

Turn 93 (550 BC)
Memphis finishes: Axeman

IBT:

Turn 94 (525 BC)
Memphis begins: Axeman

IBT:

Turn 95 (500 BC)
Thebes finishes: Settler
Send settler to silk spot south
Memphis's borders expand
Heliopolis finishes: Granary
Elephantine's borders expand

IBT:

Turn 96 (475 BC)
Thebes begins: Spearman
Heliopolis begins: Galley
Heliopolis grows: 4

IBT:
The barb city has 2 axes and an archer
While defending, Axeman defeats (2.30/5): Barbarian Axeman
While defending, Axeman loses to: Barbarian Archer (0.84/3)

Turn 97 (450 BC)
Alexandria founded
Alexandria begins: Granary
Memphis grows: 4
Memphis finishes: Axeman

IBT:

Turn 98 (425 BC)
Memphis begins: Axeman
Thebes finishes: Spearman

IBT:

Turn 99 (400 BC)
Thebes begins: Spearman
Thebes grows: 6
Heliopolis finishes: Galley

IBT:

Turn 100 (375 BC)
Heliopolis begins: Library
Memphis finishes: Axeman

IBT:

I had axes heading towards Assyrian but Cyrus was quicker and took it

Turn 101 (350 BC)
Memphis begins: Axeman
Thebes begins: Worker
Alexandria's borders expand

IBT:

Turn 102 (325 BC)
While attacking, Axeman defeats (2.75/5): Barbarian Archer
Axeman promoted: City Raider I
Axeman promoted: City Raider II
Blid: a barb archer passing by offers me the second promotion
Heliopolis grows: 4

IBT:

Turn 103 (300 BC)
Memphis finishes: Axeman
Elephantine finishes: Work Boat

IBT:

Turn 104 (275 BC)
Memphis begins: Library
Elephantine begins: Granary
Memphis begins: Settler
Elephantine grows: 2

IBT:
Confucianism founded in a distant land

Turn 105 (250 BC)
Blid: reject Catherine threats. It is the third one to ask for gems
Blid: Everybody is mad about the gems
Tech learned: Calendar
Thebes finishes: Worker

IBT:

Turn 106 (225 BC)
Start masonry to hook the stone
Research begun: Masonry
Thebes finishes: Spearman

IBT:

Turn 107 (200 BC)
Thebes begins: Axeman
Axeman promoted: City Raider I
There is another barb city north with 3 archers and I have 2 axes and a warrior there. A third axe is on his way but Mansa has a stack of 4 units that will arrive before my third axe. I decide to attack hoping to get the city in 2 turns
While attacking, Axeman defeats (3.10/5): Barbarian Archer
While attacking, Axeman defeats (3.30/5): Barbarian Archer
Blid: Very lucky combat. Axes didn't take much damage
Heliopolis grows: 5
Alexandria grows: 2

IBT:

Finally someone comes with a reasonable offer and I say yes

Turn 108 (175 BC)
Axeman promoted: City Raider II
While attacking, Axeman defeats (2.25/5): Barbarian Archer
Now, I win with 40% chance and realize it was a mistake. City was size 1 and got razed. It would have been razed by Mansa eventually. The positive thing is we got some promotions for the axes
Razed Saxon
Tech learned: Masonry

IBT:

Turn 109 (150 BC)
I go alphabet. Asoka had it for a while now

Research begun: Alphabet
Thebes begins: Worker
Memphis finishes: Settler

We have a settler and 2 choices :

The former barb city with access to Iron :

And a nice island where I think we'll be a settling on a resource again :

IBT:

Turn 110 (125 BC)
Memphis begins: Library
Axeman promoted: City Raider III

Gems were very popular. We had three demands : JC, Gengis Khan and Catherine. I think this goes against honorable code and say no. Gengis asked to stop trading with Asoka too, which I reject. He is not annoyed yet.

Religious and treasury situation. We are oscillating between 50% and 60% science :

And relations, I suggest a triangle with Mansa and Asoka :

There is an axe on queue in Thebes to delay cost (1 turn to finish)

 

[blid]

Roster :

Mark -- UP
uberfish -- On deck
Bezhukov -- still missing
Woobi -- with Bezhukov ?
Mutineer --
Blid -- Just Played

 

[uberfish]

We should take that island site now, space is running out on the continent and if we delay it any more the AI might sneak a boat over. I believe we can train Macemen with bronze, so foregoing the iron isn't too bad in the long term. That iron city site is really horrible and would just drain our economy anyway.

Overall we have had a slow start due to Cyrus apparently knowing about our variant rules and exploiting them to aggressively settle towards us (we would have smacked him down in a normal game), then the bad luck with barbarians at Heliopolis. But the discovery of that good island is a bonus and should see us into a healthy midgame.

 

[Mark1031]

Pre: Looks like we are in good expansion mode. One of our big problems is lack of religion. ATM I guess we can expand more although I fear Cyrus. We really need to beef up military esp spears as fast units can do a lot of damage.

100BC : Alexandria Granary->lighthouse
75BC: working moving settler.
50BC: Helio Library->Rax
25BC: Torn about settling new town on the sugars to pick up fish or adjacent to pick up plains hill. Go woth adjacent and found Pi-Ramesses. I always tend to favor production and the sugar will provide 4 food. So we can work the hill.

IT Cyrus wants open boarders. I say no mainly as I fear this may be a prelude to attack which we are not ready for.

1AD: Cyrus has a small stack. 2 swords and 2 immortals heading out of his territory. I wonder what he has in mind.

25AD: They are headed in our direction. Move some troops around and start spear in Helio. This could be ugly.

50AD: Cyrus maintains his trajectory at Helio. Open boarders with Khan and Cathrine.

75AD: Culture expansion at Helio pops Cy’s troops further away.

100AD: Cy seems to have lost interest in us. I am somewhat more relaxed but watch out. Getting attacked now by the big dog on Emp could be ugly. It would also be very bad timing for us as we cannot really afford to expand further ATM.

I feel a bit unfocused in this one. I am not experienced in culture wins but I do realize we need multiple religions for this approach. I fear if we try it w/o a war of expansion with Cy we will not be strong enough to make it. The one culture game I played had me constantly attacked. OTOH we will need cats for war so we have some time and we do not control the religion factor and just have to hope for spread. I realized I didn’t open boarders with Mansu. We should probably do this if we want the best chance for religion spread. I would even do it with Cy when we are more prepared for war. With some expansion we could do the default space race or more appropriate for this game maybe diplo. Well I guess at the moment we should focus on getting the economy up and running. We are in very good Lux shape and can expand quite a bit. Just as long as no one attacks too soon.

 

[Mark1031]

Uberfish -UP
Bezukov- On deck (are you still playing?)

PS could someone tell me how to get the pics in the text. I used to be able to do this but something has changed.

 

[blid]

PS could someone tell me how to get the pics in the text. I used to be able to do this but something has changed.

Just put the url in

 

[uberfish]

Got it. Going to have a look at the save now.

 

[uberfish]

100 AD - look around and I think we have enough to hold off Cyrus if he attacks. Our scouting is also lacking. Send warrior on an exploring mission to find out what the political landscape looks like, and galley to see what other resources are on the archipelago. I move the two axes onto the forest hill. Change Memphis build to worker, having too much unimproved terrain and no roads to Elephantine is a problem.

125 AD - Cyrus rejoined his stack and is skirting our borders North round Elephantine.

150 AD - Heliopolis Rax -> Axe. Cyrus troops milling around doing nothing.

175 AD - Alexandria Lighthouse -> Library. Need the culture. Heliopolis Axe -> Aqueduct. Troop maintenance is getting expensive, the city will need its health cap bumped once sugar is connected and we chopped the last two forests, and we may have a shot at Hanging Gardens with our stone. Cyrus troops leaving.

Confucianism spreads in Thebes.

200 AD - Caesar offers us clams for cows, I decline as we don't need the health imminently and we have clams on our islands. Which are really pretty good, it turns out.

275 AD - Alpha in. I tentatively set research to Drama. Everyone except Genghis has it Alphabet already, but Drama would be a monopoly for us, and there are border issues with Cyrus. Further bad news, Great Library built by Asoka. Taoism founded somewhere. I disbanded our warrior in the west as Cyrus founded a new city and it is now stuck.

Heliopolis reached its happy cap for now so I made it run 2 scientists which helps.

Genghis is backwards. He's also the only one who we have a tech lead over so we might as well get his old techs. Trade him Mathematics for Mysticism + archery.

I whipped the library in Alexandria, we only own 51% of the cow.

Taoism spreads in Elephantine.

300 AD - Catherine declares war on us (WTH?) and drops a massive stack on the cows next to Alexandria.

Ok I lied, it's 2 archers. For some reason the AI has been declaring war on me without actually having an attack force a lot recently. (see also game Acid01) Alexandria uses the leftover hammers from the whip on a work boat.

I kill the 2 archers with the axe and spear in the city, and the galley leaves.

Pick up meditation and polytheism from Genghis too, for Alphabet.

325 AD - Thebes, Library -> Galley.

350 AD - Not much happens. I put Alexandria on another work boat, next player feel free to veto this if you like.

Genghis still has priesthood to offer for calendar, I didn't do this; we could research it ourselves in 2 turns if we liked, and see if he has monarchy.

Drama due in 7, science rate up to 40%. I don't think we can afford any more military right now except for a galley or two to defend our island interests. No sign of any other troops from Cathy yet.

 

[uberfish]

Our southern archipelago. These islands look like our saving grace as there are two nice slavery/GP farm locations. There are a couple more unscouted islands to the north which look less promising, but we ought to check out. Red dot (or 1 west of it) is close to our capital too. Settler will pop out next turn and there is a workboat ready already.



North islands and where Cyrus' troops wandered off to.



Our current tech hole.

 

[Mutineer]

Yes, Technologically we are in big pile of ****.