mm15: Berserk Bismarck- AWM-1CC

[Mark1031]

OK I guess I really screwed up. I would not have begun this game if we did not have oil in reach, I was sure it was much closer than that. There is no way to win without oil and I am not sure we can win with it. So 2 choices:

I edit the map to move the oil. I really hate not being able to build colonies in civ4.

We throw in the towel and maybe try again.

Let me know your thoughts.


I personally would like to move the oil and see if we can win this. It would be quite difficult even with oil.

 

[GreyFox]

Throwing in the towel is never an option for me ... but then again neither is moving resources ...

Given the choice of two evils ... I say move the oil. Afterall, we did started this game on the premise that there be oil and iron/copper within our reach.

--

 

[Mark1031]

Well I suppose it is cheesy to move the resource but then again it is silly that we can't somehow colonize that oil. I understand why they did away with colonies as there is now a much stronger limit on expansion and colonies would let you grab everything w/o having to build cities. However, I guess no one contemplated AW-1CC. Of course one can't win that w/o the appropriate military resources which is why I rolled multiple starts and checked the map for them so really it is just my screw up to not realize our boarders would get the oil and I would have just rerolled till I got it which I suppose is also cheesy but I don;t know how else you play this type of game.

 

[Mark1031]

OK I played 10 and moved the oil but I would say this one is a loss anyway. Several AI have industrialization and we are like 40 turns away. Even if we can survive I don't think we will have the time to win it but we can play a few more if you don't want or throw in the towel. I think we needed to get more scientists and to get them earlier. The only way to win this kind of thing is to get to a tech advantage. I've played around with this a bit and I find that you need strong food resources so you can run lots of scientists early.

Anyway I built wall st and combustion is in.


http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/mm15_AD-1940.Civ4SavedGame

 

[GreyFox]

I personally would like to finish the game ... even if it is a certain lost (just look at my credentials, I have already bagged two elimination losts in SG, 3 if you count RB17 part I ... )

SO, who's up? Is Maksim still on skip?

--

 

[Mark1031]

I believe he is on skip until the 29th so go for it Grey Fox. I am happy to play to the bitter end. I think we will survive but probably just run out of time. We have 110 turns to take out a world rapidly filling with tanks, marines and battleships.

 

[GreyFox]

Ok, will play tomorrow.

 

[Gotag]

I'm game but let's set ourselves some reasonable goal(s) so at least we bow out with our heads held high. In approximate order of difficulty.

First goal, don't get conquered!

Second goal, we're not last in score at finish!!

Third goal, no launches!!!

Fourth goal, finish with a higher score then Rosy!!!!

Fifth goal, we WIN!!!!!

Never got to this point in a OCC AW but can we lose by diplo?? If so that is going to be damn hard to stop.

Gotag

 

[Mark1031]

I agree with those goals. I think 1 and 2 are doable and I would think 3 as well. Diplo is a different story, everything is enabled so we can loose this way. They will also be very friendly with each other. The one thing we can count on is that we will not be in the vote. If only we could get some WW onto the AIs and or some pillaging to slow their tech pace down.

 

[GreyFox]

Agree with the goals.

1st is almost a definite: with us being able to build units in one turn, we can turtle until the sky turns old, and the ocean dries up and we would still be one-city standing.

2nd is a tad more difficult, but doable. We are currently not the last, but we must prevent the last guy from catching up.

3rd is also doable, I think.

The last two are, uh, I think you added them there just for morale boost

--

I have never seen AI putting forth Diplomatic Win as UN Resolution before.

--

 

[GreyFox]

Reporter: Mr Chancellor, now that you are stepping down, what do you think is your greatest achievements?

In my 10 years term, I am proud to say that I rid Germany of the pest infestations. I have razed the Arabic city Aden:



I have burned the foul presence of Russian Bryansk:



Reporter: Ah, those were nice and good, Sir. The German people, I am sure, are grateful for that.

Yes, they damned well should be. We lost some good people in the Russian campaign.

Reporter: What are the casualties, sir?

A battalion of cannons and a battalion of infantry, I believed. I still mourn those loses.

Reporter: That's very sendimental of you. But what about the more severe losses elsewhere?

Ah, I think you are referring to our incursion forces into the Chinese and Persians territories. Those were brave people. They died because we cannot get to them.

Reporter: How were they lost, sir?

I don't have much details, but I believe they died under the attacks of Persian tanks.

Reporter: Tanks! What are we going to do about it?

Our scientists are working very hard to get tanks of our own .. ours will be much stronger than the enemies. We would call ours the Panzers.

Reporter: That's reassuring. Any other war news you would like to mention, sir?

Yes. In revenge of our lost, a Persian infantry brigade was wiped out, and we captured a group of Persians settlers. They are now working in our concentration camps.



Reporter: All you mentioned are land battles. What of the navy?

Ah, we sank an American transport, delaing great damages to them.



In addition, with access to oil that has miraculously popped out in the south, we were able to mass produce destroyers.

Reporter: The opposition party is accusing you of spending all the money into the navy. You have any response to that?

We need those destoryers. These opposition people know nothing! Enemy battleships are already appearing:



And they think we can still defend Germany with frigates and ironcads? Idiots they are! Of-course I have to spend money to upgrade those obsolete ships to destroyers!

* An aide tapped on the shoulder of the reporter. She glanced backwards, and her eyes brightens up when she saw who was walking in. *

Reporter: (hurriedly) Thank you for your time, sir! (ran accross the room) Mr Gotag, Mr Gotag, congratulations for being elected in ....

>>> The Save (1950AD) <<<

 

[Gotag]

Pretty quite turnset all things considered.. There was one huge development though.

In 1953 Cat declared war on Rosy!!!!!!! I admit to never having seen this before in a AW. I've had wars between AIs before I met them but never after. I wonder if this means the AIs judge us irrelevent? If so they will learn to regret it.

We had a couple of landings crushed with the loss of one cannon. We also sank a transport (U.S) with the loss of a 2x marines, 1 arty and 1 settler and sank a Sally Galleon with 1 settler and 2 rifles. Our losses were 1 destroyer vs 1 Russian destroyer but got her with the followup.

I paused the mil buildup to get the factory built. This gives us many options including destroyers in one with no overflow from the previous turnset. Our max production on units without starvations was 198, now it is +250.

This allows us in turn to keep building 100 shield units while maxing research with 4 scientists and working the water tiles. This dropped 2 turns off electricity and probably 5 or more on industrialisation.

We're currently building transports and I got a couple of cannon in. I railed up our island and then disbanded a couple of workers (leaving 2) to max our income. I also pulled units back to our cultural borders to reduce support costs.

We have 7 odd destroyers, 1 transport with more coming. I suggest a landing on the hill/tree tile next to Boston with a few infantry with hill promotions. They could easily break their teeth on a decent stack there and then we can pillage to our hearts content. We need at least 20 odd units in the first landing though so we don't get overwhelmed.

Best of luck!!

BTW, Greyfox, your reports are putting me to shame. A fun read!!

Gotag

 

[GreyFox]

Thanks, Gotag.

I am surprised by the war declaration. IIRC, they were all with the same religion, so its wierd to see war between them. But that is a good thing, I ain't complaining!

Question: doesn't the factory bring us over the brink of healthiness limit?

--

 

[Gotag]

But in truth so what? The health only means -1 food.

We can actually grow faster now if we wanted to while maintaining the same research and build rate. Just put some scientists to work farming.

The city is currently running 4 scientist, all the water tiles it can and can still build a 100 shield unit in 1 turn. It can do this while still being break even in the food department.

Easist way to see it is to just look at Berlin after your turnset and mine. Configure the city for max production, max food or max science or any kind of blend with and without the factory.

I'm starting to think that I messed up not building Ironworks a while ago, if we used it to build "research" for a few turns. We're tech bound not production bound. If we were gifted industrialization, artillery and flight, I think we could win this by conquest. Be a squeeker though cause we're running out of time.

Gotag

 

[Mark1031]

I agree with GOtags assessment on ironworks. Should have built it some time ago so I built a workboat and started the ironworks. It was 5 turns and I think will be a help for tile use with the more expensive units and we could rune a few turns of research. I don't really think we need lots more infantry but panzers and marines.

1962: Elect->indus in 21.

1963: Rosy makes peace with cathy. Too bad that could have really helped.

1965: Take out a city of cy's by the gold. I should have watched this better as it is much better to hit them before they found. Lost 1 infantry.

1970: Cy lands a stack of 3 arty, 2 infantry and a cav which we dispatch w/o loss.

I really wish I would have turned off timed victory as with panzers and marines I think we could do this with enough time. I'm sure we can stop a launch. I really want to give this another shot. We need a start with a bit more food and a quicker run to Philo for lots of early scientists. If we would have gotten fewer artists and more scientists we would have been in much better shape.

I will be out till next tues so take your time or skip me if you want to keep moving.

 

[GreyFox]

Report from the Army

For the uncounted number of times, the German razed yet another pest infestation in the Motherland:

Turn 383 (1973 AD)
While attacking, Infantry defeats (13.60/20): Persian Infantry

Turn 384 (1974 AD)
While attacking, Infantry defeats (10.40/20): Persian Infantry
Razed Istakhr

Speaking of infestation, not agin!!!!



And note the bomber ... it is within range of Berlin.

--

Report from the Navy

Good news, genetleman, we won against a battleship!

Turn 381 (1971 AD)
Berlin begins: Cannon
Berlin finishes: Cannon

IBT:
While defending, Destroyer defeats (17.40/30): American Battleship

Turn 382 (1972 AD)
Destroyer promoted: Combat IV
While attacking, Destroyer defeats (24.00/30): American Destroyer

The destroyer was given the highest medal ever bestowed for commendtation of bravey in combat: the four-star badge. * Loud applause *


Report from Chief of Staff

Please to inform everyone that the German populance once again get to enjoy the tasty delicacy that is clams.

And gentleman, we are about to unlease our Panzers. * Loud applause *

But, some of the more unpleasant news. Military Intelligence reports that Rosy has launched two thrusters, so if we are going to stop him from launching, we need to bring the battle to the Americans ...



However, we also have our 2nd objective to consider. Qin is a mere 100 points behind, and Saladin is pulling away further.

We have 3 choices (not necessarily mutually exclusive) for the remaining 70 years:
(a) attack Rosy to stop him from launching .. some pillaging will slow him down.
(b) attack Qin to keep him at the last position
(c) attack Saladin to pull him down in score so that we can overtake him.

>>> The Save (1980AD) <<<

Battle Log:

Spoiler :

Turn 380 (1970 AD)
Berlin finishes: Infantry

IBT:

Turn 381 (1971 AD)
Berlin begins: Cannon
Berlin finishes: Cannon

IBT:
While defending, Destroyer defeats (17.40/30): American Battleship

Turn 382 (1972 AD)
Destroyer promoted: Combat IV
While attacking, Destroyer defeats (24.00/30): American Destroyer

IBT:

Turn 383 (1973 AD)
While attacking, Infantry defeats (13.60/20): Persian Infantry
While attacking, Destroyer defeats (30.00/30): Persian Galleon

IBT:
While defending, Destroyer defeats (7.20/30): American Destroyer

Turn 384 (1974 AD)
While attacking, Infantry defeats (10.40/20): Persian Infantry
Razed Istakhr

IBT:

Turn 385 (1975 AD)

IBT:

Turn 386 (1976 AD)

IBT:

Turn 387 (1977 AD)

IBT:

Turn 388 (1978 AD)

IBT:

Turn 389 (1979 AD)
Berlin begins: Destroyer
Berlin finishes: Destroyer

IBT:

Turn 390 (1980 AD)
Berlin begins: Destroyer
Destroyer promoted: Combat I
Destroyer promoted: Combat II
Destroyer promoted: Combat III
Destroyer promoted: Combat I
Destroyer promoted: Combat II
Destroyer promoted: Combat III

 

[Gotag]

Will try to get this tonight.

Gotag

 

[Gotag]

I admit to some weed as I was alternating Cannon and Panzers and didn't micro the scientists. We wouldn't have gained much but still precision is to be prized.

Wasted some time taking out that island with the Bomber. That city could not be allowed to stay. Also took out some visiting Russians.

That foul nest of American iniquity Boston is no more. Cost us a Panzer and 2 cannons. They defended with a Navy Seal, 3 Sam Inf and a Mech infantry.

I recommend moving west and taking the two cities while cutting the rail link.

We're currently two turns from Artillery. We have 3 Cannon sitting North waiting for pickup and I just dropped off a few more Panzers next to the ruins of Boston. We have destroyers in the area to bombard those western cities and we can also use some more defensive units at home.

All in all most satisfying to finally take the battle to Rosy. If your feeling your oats you might try to take out Washington. That would be most gratifying no doubt but it is heavily defended. U.S. score dropped over 200 points on this turnset.

Watch the movement, it is easy to lose a turn here and there moving units around to get to boats. Counting tiles is key here.

Best of luck!!!

Gotag

 

[Maksim]

Just to note - I'm back, and available to play after Mark.

 

[Mark1031]

1990: Looks as good as can be expected. Start spiting out panzers to see how much damage we can do. I waited with the cannons to upgrade to arty.

1992: Arty-> Rocketry. Ouch Rosy now has mechs.

1993: Take LA for the loss of 1 panzer. It was very weakly defended.

1997: Cy completes UN.

1998: Take out Atlanta with also the loss of just 1 panzer.

IT: A wave of gunships batters our SoD. I think we only lost like 3-4 units and took about the same with us.

2000: Cy wins the vote for chairman. One problem for us is the resolutions can drive us out of Bureaucracy and Theocracy. I was thinking we might want to take what troops we have at the top of our Island and try to raze the UN. I think it is in the capitol Persepolis.


http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/mm15_AD-2000.Civ4SavedGame