A city at G will never grow or whip anything because it can't work the fish. You gotta have some food to make a useful city.
mm20: "Say Hello to my Little Friend" (AWD)
- Thread starter Mark1031
- Start date
A city at G will never grow or whip anything because it can't work the fish. You gotta have some food to make a useful city.
ruff_hi
Live 4ever! Or die trying
Why do I do this to myself ... face a difficult decision, make it and then post the question as a teaser. It always ends up with everyone coming up with a different answer than I came up with ... and when I say EVERYONE, I mean EVERYONE. No one put forward the answer that I selected :sigh: but more on this later.
Here is our capital when I picked up this game ...
Looking good and a city with lots of potential. I think our main issue will be science (ie commerce) so I start to grow this city and get the commerce cracking. With that in mind, I chop one forest and farm the tile (1N1W of the city) - bonus, irrigates the corn 2N of the city when Civil Service comes in. I also irrigate the plain tile 2S1E of the city so that the rice gets irrigated when Civil Service comes in.
The techs learnt during my 20 turns ...
Archery (only 1 round left)
Pottery (cottages and granaries)
I also have some turns into Animal Husbandry
There is little to report from our captive AIs - they seem to enjoy siting in their cities doing not very much. However, Monty did find religion (Buddhism in 2500BC) in Teoihuacan - so no razing that holy city. There are a few Barbs about (killed off two Barb cities) that aren't causing any problems yet. I ended my set with the MA (sort of) back near home.
The two biggest events during my round were ...
1) where to put the second city
2) what to build in the capital
The debate seemed to be STONE, STONE or maybe STONE. That drove my thinking on the second city and on the build.
The Votes for city locations are (at the time of going to press)
sooooo - F
frankcor - F
LKendter - F (or maybe K)
Mark1031 - F
Asperger - F (thx for pointing that out! - see #47 below)
To me, the options are between F, G, J and K with maybe A being a good fishing village somewhere down the track (depending on this city).
F - gets stone, fish, misses iron, has two dead tiles
G - gets stone, iron, misses fish, has three dead tiles
J - gets stone, wheat, iron, misses fish, has two dead tiles (opportunity cost with stone)
K - gets stone, iron, wheat, misses fish, has four dead tiles (leaves A as possible city location)
Analysis: G is right out - no extra food while K is not as strong as F or J (4 dead tiles). So it came down to a choice between F and J. What are the differences here ...
After looking at these two locations for about 20 minutes, I decided to go with J because ...
a) we don't know how to fish (5 turns for fishing)
b) we would have to build a boat (? turns for that)
c) J gives us access to stone straight off
d) the hill will help balance the loss of hammers from putting the city on the stone
Ok, with that decision made ... what to build in the capital. I could start another settler, or produce some Skirmisher (13 turns to build) to go and hold those cities that we are about to take off the AI or ... the Pyramids. I decided to start the Pyramids (125 turns based on the current city configuration). As you know, we have workers coming out of our ears and a few forests that are growing on grassland tiles ... and thus I started on a huge project to build the pyramids out of wood. I started by chopping the forested hills and mine them ... hopefully, we will pop a resource here. I then proceeded to chop a few other tiles and started most of them on cottages.
Here is a picture of our capital after the razor gang was finished with it.
Well, that is my report. Two fairly big decisions that I have hopefully given you an insight into my thinking about - please fill free to call me a complete idiot just as long as you tell me why I am a complete idiot.
The challenge(s) going foward ...
1) health in the capital (thx Ruff!)
2) happiness in the capital (not my fault)
3) build skirmishers and go and claim those old AI capital locations (they look juicy)
4) Go and find those other AIs - the ones on our continent aren't helping us with our research
My 2c - our cities should concentrate on science - that is the area where we will fall behind.
Not so Healthy as I thought
Here is our capital when I picked up this game ...
Looking good and a city with lots of potential. I think our main issue will be science (ie commerce) so I start to grow this city and get the commerce cracking. With that in mind, I chop one forest and farm the tile (1N1W of the city) - bonus, irrigates the corn 2N of the city when Civil Service comes in. I also irrigate the plain tile 2S1E of the city so that the rice gets irrigated when Civil Service comes in.
The techs learnt during my 20 turns ...
Archery (only 1 round left)
Pottery (cottages and granaries)
I also have some turns into Animal Husbandry
There is little to report from our captive AIs - they seem to enjoy siting in their cities doing not very much. However, Monty did find religion (Buddhism in 2500BC) in Teoihuacan - so no razing that holy city. There are a few Barbs about (killed off two Barb cities) that aren't causing any problems yet. I ended my set with the MA (sort of) back near home.
The two biggest events during my round were ...
1) where to put the second city
2) what to build in the capital
The debate seemed to be STONE, STONE or maybe STONE. That drove my thinking on the second city and on the build.
The Votes for city locations are (at the time of going to press)
sooooo - F
frankcor - F
LKendter - F (or maybe K)
Mark1031 - F
Asperger - F (thx for pointing that out! - see #47 below)
To me, the options are between F, G, J and K with maybe A being a good fishing village somewhere down the track (depending on this city).
F - gets stone, fish, misses iron, has two dead tiles
G - gets stone, iron, misses fish, has three dead tiles
J - gets stone, wheat, iron, misses fish, has two dead tiles (opportunity cost with stone)
K - gets stone, iron, wheat, misses fish, has four dead tiles (leaves A as possible city location)
Analysis: G is right out - no extra food while K is not as strong as F or J (4 dead tiles). So it came down to a choice between F and J. What are the differences here ...
PHP:
..............F.....J
Grassland 6 5
Plains 2 4
Ocean 9 8
Desert 3* 2
Bonus 2 3*
Forest 3 3
Hills 0 1
F* - one of the desert tiles has stone
J* - one of the bonuses is on the city location
- one of the bonuses is shared by another city
The other difference is that F has fish, J has iron and Wheat.a) we don't know how to fish (5 turns for fishing)
b) we would have to build a boat (? turns for that)
c) J gives us access to stone straight off
d) the hill will help balance the loss of hammers from putting the city on the stone
Ok, with that decision made ... what to build in the capital. I could start another settler, or produce some Skirmisher (13 turns to build) to go and hold those cities that we are about to take off the AI or ... the Pyramids. I decided to start the Pyramids (125 turns based on the current city configuration). As you know, we have workers coming out of our ears and a few forests that are growing on grassland tiles ... and thus I started on a huge project to build the pyramids out of wood. I started by chopping the forested hills and mine them ... hopefully, we will pop a resource here. I then proceeded to chop a few other tiles and started most of them on cottages.
Here is a picture of our capital after the razor gang was finished with it.
Well, that is my report. Two fairly big decisions that I have hopefully given you an insight into my thinking about - please fill free to call me a complete idiot just as long as you tell me why I am a complete idiot.
The challenge(s) going foward ...
1) health in the capital (thx Ruff!)
2) happiness in the capital (not my fault)
3) build skirmishers and go and claim those old AI capital locations (they look juicy)
4) Go and find those other AIs - the ones on our continent aren't helping us with our research
My 2c - our cities should concentrate on science - that is the area where we will fall behind.
Spoiler RuffMod v2 Logger, to be released this week! :
Not so Healthy as I thought
Well if we get the pyramids by 2 turns then we owe it to you
. I guess we just cottage the grasslands here and let it grow slowly and use its 6 hammers (4 for iron, 2 for city on stone) to build things.Health shouldn't be a problem - we don't even have a granary or the cows hooked up. That's 3 health straight away.
angeleyes
mood indigo
In post 34 i also already voted for F, but a sg would be very dull if everybody makes the same decisions.
ruff_hi
Live 4ever! Or die trying
I peeked at the other AIs using WorldBuilder and I can report that we will get the pyramids. No other city has even started it I am soooo glad that I chop rushed it.
I am soooo glad that I chop rushed it.It will be very nice to get the Pyramids. Your analysis on tech pace is correct. This will be the main stumbling point. I think we also need a religion or 2 or 3. Each religion is 2 happy-temple+ Free religion+shrine income. If we don't get them ourselves we will never get them as our decimated opponents on this continent will not get them for us. If Jewish is gone we should try for Confucian and maybe a scientist poped Taoism.
ruff_hi
Live 4ever! Or die trying
Hindu and Budda have been found - other religions remain undiscovered AFAIR.
angeleyes
mood indigo
0 2200 BC Cause ruff hi's intelligence agency discovered we don't have to fear to miss the pyramide, i'll not whip it but assign citizens to the gems. Set research on mysticism for an obelisk in Stone city.
2 2140 BC
Revolt to Police State to win a few hammers, making a skirmisher in Timbuktu.
4 2080 BC Stonehenge build, but not by our friends.
6 2020 BC Mysticism > AH to get the cows ready to help build settler soon.
7 1990 BC Timbuktu: skirmisher > skirmisher
8 1960 BC Whip obelisk in Stone city. Don't understand why our tanks has flanking.
10 1900 BC Timbuktu grows, change build in settler, convert to Representation.
11 1870 BC AH > Polytheism, bring cow online.
12 1840 BC Great Wall build, but not by our friends.
14 1780 BC Great Lighthouse build, but not ...
19 1630 BC Kumbi Saleh founded, near copper and crab
20 1600 BC Poly in 2 turns, Judaism still not founded, against my expactations. When it is, i should switch to Fishing.
Feel a bit disorientated in this game. Rome has founded a new interesting city (Neapolis), could become our HE city. i would capture the barbcity when calender is coming in.
2 2140 BC
Revolt to Police State to win a few hammers, making a skirmisher in Timbuktu.
4 2080 BC Stonehenge build, but not by our friends.
6 2020 BC Mysticism > AH to get the cows ready to help build settler soon.
7 1990 BC Timbuktu: skirmisher > skirmisher
8 1960 BC Whip obelisk in Stone city. Don't understand why our tanks has flanking.
10 1900 BC Timbuktu grows, change build in settler, convert to Representation.
11 1870 BC AH > Polytheism, bring cow online.
12 1840 BC Great Wall build, but not by our friends.
14 1780 BC Great Lighthouse build, but not ...
19 1630 BC Kumbi Saleh founded, near copper and crab
20 1600 BC Poly in 2 turns, Judaism still not founded, against my expactations. When it is, i should switch to Fishing.
Feel a bit disorientated in this game. Rome has founded a new interesting city (Neapolis), could become our HE city. i would capture the barbcity when calender is coming in.
ruff_hi
Live 4ever! Or die trying
Flanking leads to mobility (-1 movement penalty)
Pre turn: Looks good the pyramids are a big help. Now however we are broke and since we have Budd on the continent I am content to forgo Mono. We need fishing and writing more. Switch research to writing. Switch Timbuktu to granary. Neapolis is a nice city. But we can wait for it to develop. I am more interested in grabbing the Buddhist city now. At size 5 it should provide some immediately needed cash. We need writing urgently but are out of cash. I send one of our little friends down there on a mission
1540: Teo is a nice city all around. I hope he sends out the fishing boat before I take it.
1510: Damn he didnt send out the workboat. He must just keep everything holed up when under threat.
1390; Judiasm founded. Screw it. The boat is still there and I take it for 119 gp. Bump up research. Writing in 2.
1330: Writing-> fishing in 4. We must research faster.
1240 Teo out of resistance. Whip granary.
1090: Confuscianism founded.
1000: Ill stop here. Building Libraries all around. Math in 8 for the chop increase and maybe HG. For cash or wonder.
At this point it is all about economics and research. Our biggest problem will be keeping up in research. I didnt build a single unit. I dont know where to go after math. Key techs right now for us are currency, CoL and Metal casting. Forges give +10% gold for us and +1 happy with gems. However, first I think we might want to grab the religion techs. Priesthood and Mono to spread around our religion and get into Org Religion. Need priest for CoL anyway and Monistaries are +10% research.
One key is to let the AI build up nice cities for us. Neopolis is a juicy target. But I would wait for it to get bigger. Once we are about to have CoL I think we blitz the south of the continent and let Rangar develop the North for us.
1540: Teo is a nice city all around. I hope he sends out the fishing boat before I take it.
1510: Damn he didnt send out the workboat. He must just keep everything holed up when under threat.
1390; Judiasm founded. Screw it. The boat is still there and I take it for 119 gp. Bump up research. Writing in 2.
1330: Writing-> fishing in 4. We must research faster.
1240 Teo out of resistance. Whip granary.
1090: Confuscianism founded.
1000: Ill stop here. Building Libraries all around. Math in 8 for the chop increase and maybe HG. For cash or wonder.
At this point it is all about economics and research. Our biggest problem will be keeping up in research. I didnt build a single unit. I dont know where to go after math. Key techs right now for us are currency, CoL and Metal casting. Forges give +10% gold for us and +1 happy with gems. However, first I think we might want to grab the religion techs. Priesthood and Mono to spread around our religion and get into Org Religion. Need priest for CoL anyway and Monistaries are +10% research.
One key is to let the AI build up nice cities for us. Neopolis is a juicy target. But I would wait for it to get bigger. Once we are about to have CoL I think we blitz the south of the continent and let Rangar develop the North for us.
I didn't know how many turns to play so I did 10.
Mathematics wouldn't have been my choice of research but I stuck with it in case there's a grand plan. I changed TBT from a skirmisher (due in 5) to a barracks, then whipped the barracks next turn, the overflow meant that the skirmisher was done the turn after that.
Ragnar is the wealthiest civ? Hmm, I'm going to send a tank over there to investigate. I whipped a work boat at Kumbi Saleh and a library at Djenne. Started a few more skirmishers/spears in the cities which had barracks.
I took Assyrian because it is awesome and will need a lot of time to chop all the jungle. GP farm anyone? I don't want to see any cottages built in this city. In fact we may want to go to calendar and caste system quite quickly.
Mathematics complete and our chops did too. Research set into monotheism to spread buddhism around without having to build monasteries.
We got a great engineer in Timbuktu, I left him there for input. Hanging gardens would be a waste IMO. He will lightbulb metal casting for us - possibly the best move? Not sure if the GL is still viable for us.
Our economy is limited by our city size. The capital has a lot of cottages built (too many?) yet cannot work most of them. Metal casting gets us forges which are an instant +1 from the gems. Mono will spread religion for another +1 and half price temples will help too. Once mono is finished let's whip a couple of missionaries from our buddhist city.
Our tanks are exploring Rome and the Vikings.
The save
Mathematics wouldn't have been my choice of research but I stuck with it in case there's a grand plan. I changed TBT from a skirmisher (due in 5) to a barracks, then whipped the barracks next turn, the overflow meant that the skirmisher was done the turn after that.
Ragnar is the wealthiest civ? Hmm, I'm going to send a tank over there to investigate. I whipped a work boat at Kumbi Saleh and a library at Djenne. Started a few more skirmishers/spears in the cities which had barracks.
I took Assyrian because it is awesome and will need a lot of time to chop all the jungle. GP farm anyone? I don't want to see any cottages built in this city. In fact we may want to go to calendar and caste system quite quickly.
Mathematics complete and our chops did too. Research set into monotheism to spread buddhism around without having to build monasteries.
We got a great engineer in Timbuktu, I left him there for input. Hanging gardens would be a waste IMO. He will lightbulb metal casting for us - possibly the best move? Not sure if the GL is still viable for us.
Our economy is limited by our city size. The capital has a lot of cottages built (too many?) yet cannot work most of them. Metal casting gets us forges which are an instant +1 from the gems. Mono will spread religion for another +1 and half price temples will help too. Once mono is finished let's whip a couple of missionaries from our buddhist city.
Our tanks are exploring Rome and the Vikings.
The save
GreyFox
Make it so ...
I am UP, right?
I am thinking of razing the Roman's capital for some quick cash to sustain our economy (we are losing 1gpt at 40% with 2gold in coffers). Plus, we need just 11 more exp to get ourselves a GG.
I think we could settle the GE, or lightbulb metal casting. The hanging Gardern is actually good, giving us the much needed pop, and also adding GE points, but it is a bit cheap to waste the GE. The GL would be nice, but it requires we go alphabet and literature, and by then, I think the GLibrary would be gone.
Comments? Will play tonight.
--
I am thinking of razing the Roman's capital for some quick cash to sustain our economy (we are losing 1gpt at 40% with 2gold in coffers). Plus, we need just 11 more exp to get ourselves a GG.
I think we could settle the GE, or lightbulb metal casting. The hanging Gardern is actually good, giving us the much needed pop, and also adding GE points, but it is a bit cheap to waste the GE. The GL would be nice, but it requires we go alphabet and literature, and by then, I think the GLibrary would be gone.
Comments? Will play tonight.
--
I'd hold the GE. We can use it for many things later. GL, Taj, 1/2 Statue of liberty, Iron works. For now I would head to lit for the possible GL. Getting the access to the specialist wonder and the military wonder is worth it. I would definately save engineers and lightbulb scientists. It would actually be nice to get to Philo to run pacifism/cast for awhile. I just realized the power of that in another game This will be all about techs and wonders until the beginning of the naval war,
I would definately not use it for a stone wonder.
I would definately not use it for a stone wonder.
GreyFox
Make it so ...
Looking good ... our soooo-designated-GP-farm city has lots of sugar, and pre-calendar, it is better to convert them all to farms first ... so that's what I do.
On the Roman Front, here's the favourite of all Civ fans:
And contrary to what people believes, this ->
<- is never gonna happen.
We razed Antium:
This dethroned caesar as the leading civ in score (in our continent, at least), and gave us the needed gold to switch to 100% research, and we get Monotheism in a single turn:
Which leads to the civic switch ... (I love being spiritual):
Hmm ... and he has praets! This is interesting ... I pillaged his iron mine, but rest assure he will re-connect it and build more praets.
On the Viking front, I razed their capital and Uppsala is now Razala
Hmmm ... when I revisited his north west city, this is what I found:
One single defender??? He must have pulled some forces to escort the settler and also to attack the barb city. Hmmm ... I was debating whether to attack the settling party or to raze the city, then I glanced at our coffers, and made the decision:
I've attached our first general to the southern modern armor:
And promoted him with extra movement. It still could be promoted further, but I suggest we wait a bit since armor don't get medics promotion, we should use the promotion to heal our MAs.
He is now visiting Neopolis:
I was thinking of capturing (and keeping) Neopolis ... since it is near to our capital. But there is a praet looming nearby, and an Aztec city waiting to consume the cultural border in the south ... so it is up to the next player what to do (the MA still has one more movement).
Up in our North, two barbs appeared:
The warrior has a half-half chance of survival, but the skimishers should be able to clean up.
>>> The Save <<<
The autolog really contains lots of details, kudos to Ruff!
On the Roman Front, here's the favourite of all Civ fans:
And contrary to what people believes, this ->
<- is never gonna happen.We razed Antium:
This dethroned caesar as the leading civ in score (in our continent, at least), and gave us the needed gold to switch to 100% research, and we get Monotheism in a single turn:
Which leads to the civic switch ... (I love being spiritual):
Hmm ... and he has praets! This is interesting ... I pillaged his iron mine, but rest assure he will re-connect it and build more praets.
On the Viking front, I razed their capital and Uppsala is now Razala
Hmmm ... when I revisited his north west city, this is what I found:
One single defender??? He must have pulled some forces to escort the settler and also to attack the barb city. Hmmm ... I was debating whether to attack the settling party or to raze the city, then I glanced at our coffers, and made the decision:
I've attached our first general to the southern modern armor:
And promoted him with extra movement. It still could be promoted further, but I suggest we wait a bit since armor don't get medics promotion, we should use the promotion to heal our MAs.
He is now visiting Neopolis:
I was thinking of capturing (and keeping) Neopolis ... since it is near to our capital. But there is a praet looming nearby, and an Aztec city waiting to consume the cultural border in the south ... so it is up to the next player what to do (the MA still has one more movement).
Up in our North, two barbs appeared:
The warrior has a half-half chance of survival, but the skimishers should be able to clean up.
>>> The Save <<<
The autolog really contains lots of details, kudos to Ruff!
Spoiler Autolog :
ruff_hi
Live 4ever! Or die trying
Nice round - every time I see a log I notice something that needs changing. This time it was the turn counter ... "Turn 120/0" ... the "/0" because this is a timeless game. I'm glad I put the time in ... fun to see how long people spend playing 1 round. And it is tomorrow where you are already! Also, Fox - you don't have a copy of the latest version. That looks like RC1.
Back to the game ... how is our economy ... it looks horrible!
Back to the game ... how is our economy ... it looks horrible!
